New Member with a 98 Deville. doesn't have spark. need help please!

[murray-eliminator]

If it's getting spark, the cam and crank sensors are working.

so then i should focus on the ECM?

[KevinW]

P1631 Theft Deterrent Start Enable Signal Not Correct

It would seem the PCM may not be activating the injectors (fuel disabled) due to a password issue: "Whenever the IPC or PCM are replaced, a theft learn procedure must be followed in order for the new password to be learned." According to the 1996 E/K manual, the learn procedure requires a T50 or T60.

[murray-eliminator]

Would that include the display cluster?. Because that's all that's been changed that I know of. Also how do you do a theft learn procedure?.

[murray-eliminator]

If your refering to this> When performing the 30-minute relearn procedure, all previously learned keys will be erased from the TDM memory. Additional keys may be learned after performing the relearn procedure.When replacing a TDM with a GM SPO Replacement Part, ensure the procedure to setup a new TDM is performed prior to the 30-Minute Relearn Procedure.

1. With a master vehicle key, turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
2. Observe the security indicator. After approximately 10 minutes, the telltale will turn OFF.
3. Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds.
4. Repeat steps 1-3 two more times for a total of 3 cycles or 30 minutes.

I have tried to do that, The problem is, my sercurity light goes off after a few seconds. not 10 Mins.

[KevinW]

The display cluster is the IPC. The theft learn procedure requires a T50 or T60 (at least for the 1996 model year), which may be a dealer-only item.

[Logan]

This is a copy and paste for the 1998 Deville. It gets a little scrambled on the flow chart....but it's all there..

The ignition system uses a waste spark method of spark distribution. During cranking, the Ignition Control (IC) module monitors the crankshaft position sensor signals. The signals are used to determine the correct pair to spark first. After the crankshaft position signals have been processed by the IC module, it sends a fuel control reference pulse to the PCM. When the PCM receives this pulse it will command all eight injectors to open for a priming shot of fuel in all cylinders. After priming, the injectors are left OFF for the next eight fuel control reference pulses from the IC module (two crankshaft revolutions). This allows each cylinder a chance to use the fuel from the priming shot. During this waiting period, a cam pulse will have been received by the PCM. Now the PCM begins to operate the injectors sequentially based on true crankshaft position. However, if the cam signal is not present at start-up, DTC P0340 will set and the PCM will start fuel delivery in a random pattern with a 1 in 8 chance that fuel delivery is correct.

The crankshaft position sensor signals are used only by the IC module. It is used for spark synchronization and to initiate reference pulses only (not passed to the PCM).

Diagnostic Aids
Perform the Powertain OBD System Check before performing this table to help prevent mis-diagnosis.

Step
Action
Value(s)
Yes
No

1
Did you perform the Powertrain On-Board Diagnostic System Check?
--
Go to Step 2
Go to Powertrain On Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check

2
Are DTC(s) P0231, P0232, P0322, P0601, P0602, P1376, P1631, P1632 OR P1634 set?
--
Go to DTCs that are set.
Go to Step 3

3
Install spark tester J 26792 on one spark plug wire and ground that cylinders companion cylinder plug wire.
Crank engine while observing the spark tester.
Repeat the above steps on at least one more cylinder.
Does the spark tester indicate a crisp blue spark on all tested cylinders?
--
Go to Step 4
Go to Electronic Ignition System Diagnosis - Ignition System Check

4
Reconnect all plug wires.
Using a scan tool, command the fuel pump ON while listening for audible pump operation.
Was fuel pump operation heard?
Go to Step 5
Go to DTC P0231 Fuel Pump Feedback Circuit Low Voltage

5
Perform the PCM Power And Ground Check and the Powertrain Ground Check. Refer to Powertrain Control Power and Ground Check .

Was a repair to the vehicle made in either table?
--
Go to Step 11
Go to Step 6

6
Disconnect injectors number 1 and 3.
Install injector test light on both injector harneses and crank engine.
Do both injectors blink on and off?
--
Go to Step 10
Go to Step 7

7
Disconnect injector harness conector C127.
Using DMM J 39200 check voltage on terminals N and P (harness side)
Is the voltage the same or higher than the value specifed on both terminals?
10 volts
Go to Step 9
Go to Step 8

8
Repair the injector ignition feed circuit(s) between C127 and fuse(s).

Is repair complete?
--
Go to Step 11
--

9
Replace PCM. Refer to Powertrain Control Module Replacement/Programming

Is the replacement complete?
--
Go to Step 11
--

10
Perform Fuel System Diagnosis. Refer to Fuel System Diagnosis .

Was a repair made to the vehicle in the Fuel System Diagnosis?
--
Go to Step 11
Go to Step 12

11
Does the vehicle now start and run?
--
Go to Powertrain On Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check
Go to Step 12

12
Check for a mechanical condition that could cause a no start condition, for example a broken timing chain.

Was a mechanical repair made?
--
Go to Powertrain Control Module Diagnosis for Verify Repair
Go to Powertrain On Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check

[Cadillac Jim]

It can be done without a T50 or T60 as per the method murray-eliminator provides us.

Once we get the changed modules all programmed and talking to each other, we need to diagnose the problems before we change any more parts.

[murray-eliminator]

I have no idea what any of that means..lol

[murray-eliminator]

It can be done without a T50 or T60 as per the method murray-eliminator provides us.

Once we get the changed modules all programmed and talking to each other, we need to diagnose the problems before we change any more parts.

I'm at a loss at what to change or check next.

[Cadillac Jim]

We need to get the IPM talking to the rest of the car.

[murray-eliminator]

We need to get the IPM talking to the rest of the car.

And how do we do that?

[Logan]

Do you have the old IPC / Cluster?

A T50...T60 is some GM dealership equipment. Kinda a obsolete programming PC terminal.

[murray-eliminator]

Yes I still have the old one. but it's dead. plug it in and it doesn't light up..

[murray-eliminator]

Can you rent those T50...T100 at a auto parts store?

[Logan]

Ummm...no. It's basically a old IBM PC with a SCSI card. I actually had one back in the mid 90's.

As for the cluster. It may be worth a try plugging in the old one. That said...I think everything you need is in post #31.

[murray-eliminator]

Yeah I tried pugging it back in. it won't do anythiing, no cranking over no lights no nothing. it's like it kills power to the whole car. and as far as post 31 i have no idea what any of that means.

[Logan]

Ok...so....old cluster dead car.

used cluster...car cranks but no start?

Some of the clusters have the VIN programmed in. GM has a service bulletin about swapping modules from other cars. Being the VIN is programmed in...and it can only be programmed one time. Swapping in modules won't work.

You may have to purchase a refurbished IPC from a Delco radio / speedometer repair facility. Most larger cities have one. About a $300 swap with you walking the IPC in. They have the equipment to program the VIN, options, mileage etc.

[murray-eliminator]

Ok...so....old cluster dead car.

used cluster...car cranks but no start?

Some of the clusters have the VIN programmed in. GM has a service bulletin about swapping modules from other cars. Being the VIN is programmed in...and it can only be programmed one time. Swapping in modules won't work.

You may have to purchase a refurbished IPC from a Delco radio / speedometer repair facility. Most larger cities have one. About a $300 swap with you walking the IPC in. They have the equipment to program the VIN, options, mileage etc.

Yes old cluster dead car, new cluster it will crank but won't start. I thought the 30 min relearn was for swapping out clusters?. everything I have read on line says to do that after changing the cluster..

[Cadillac Jim]

The FSM procedure is to remove the old cluster and send it in, dead or not, with the new one to transfer the programming from the old cluster to the new one. The programming moves the VIN, passwords to talk to the other modules, and the option list for the car to the new module. Even if the old one is dead, they have ways of making it talk.

Without the old cluster, you may have a problem with continuity of the odometer, and this involves complications with the Department of Motor Vehicles in most states; you can bet that CarFAX will pick up the odometer change the next time you have your car serviced at an outfit that uses computer databases with VINs (i.e. any dealer, GM or not, and most larger chains).

Where you are now, with another cluster in place, is difficult. I'm sure that the old cluster is still good for getting the data off it, but I don't know if clusters can be programmed that deep (i.e. odometer mileage, VIN, wheel rolling diameter) unless they are a new or refurbished part.

At worst, you should be able to do the 30-minute relearn procedure that Murray-eliminator gave in post #29. The procedure from the 2998 FSM posted by Logan in post #31 mostly assumes that the IPM and PCM are talking. The first step is to address a list of OBD codes if they show up:

P0231 Fuel Pump Feedback Circuit Low Voltage
P0232 Fuel Pump Feedback Circuit High Voltage
P0322 IC Module 4X Reference Circuit No Frequency
P0601 Control Module Read Only Memory (ROM)
P0602 Control Module Not Programmed
P1376 Ignition Ground Circuit
P1631 Theft Deterrent Start Enable Signal Not Correct
P1632 Theft Deterrent Fuel Disable Signal Received
P1634 Ignition 1 Switch Circuit (Ignition 1 power low voltage)

If the IPM isn't talking to the PCM, you will have P0601 or P0602, and that's what we are addressing here. With a non-programmed IPM, you can also have these:

P0605 Control Module Programming Read Only Memory (ROM)
P0606 Control Module Internal Performance
P0610 Control Module Vehicle Options Incorrect

The IPM is the master computer for the car. That's where your OBD connector goes, that's what goes into the "Diagnostic mode" and takes over your DIC to display the codes, which it gets by polling all the other modules, one at a time, over the car's network. It's where the VIN lives, it's where the odometer reading is kept, and it knows all the car's options so that it knows what modules are there and how they are configured. When the dealer reprograms other modules, including the PCM, they go through the data link connector, which means that they really are asking the IPM to reprogram the PCM (or other module) and are telling the IPM what it wants set or changed in the other module.

[murray-eliminator]

Let me run the codes again and post them. Am i looking for current codes only, or history codes as well?.. Last time i posted them i cleared all the codes. so i should get a more current reading correct?.. If I need to match the cluster to the computer, what if i bought the computer from the car i bought the cluster from?. would that make a difference for it to run?

[winterset]

Can you isolate what is bad on the old cluster? Maybe the display board is bad, or a connector or wire are shorted, and you can swap the logic board onto it? This will keep your old programming and configuration

[Logan]

GM does have a bulletin about swapping modules:

GM Technical service bulletin TSB Class 2 trouble code B1000, B1001, B1271, B1780

Class 2 Serial Data Communication allows control modules (i.e. the Powertrain Control Module (PCM), the Body Control Module (BCM), the Dash Integration Module (DIM), the Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC), the radio, the Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning (HVAC) Controller, and the Sensing and Diagnostic Module (SDM) to exchange information. This information may be operational information or identification information. Among the identification information exchanged and compared within these modules is the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN). Typically the one module, the master module, broadcasts the VIN and all the other modules compare the VIN stored within itself. When the broadcast VIN does not match the VIN stored within the SDM, the following actions occur:

• DTC B1001 Option Configuration Error is set and deployment of the airbags is inhibited.

• DTC B1271 or a DTC B1780 Theft Locked.

The VIN information is also used by the radio. When the VIN does not match the VIN stored within the radio, DTC B1271 or DTC B1780 is set and the radio is inoperative.

Additionally, the master module will compare the SDM's part number (last four digits) to determine if the correct SDM is installed in the vehicle. If the SDM is the wrong part, a B1001 will also set.

This situation may occur when a vehicle is being repaired. When a PCM or a body control type module is replaced, the VIN information must be programmed into the replaced (new) control module. A module which has had VIN information entered into it (for example, one taken from another vehicle) cannot be reprogrammed. VIN information can only be entered into new modules. The ignition must be ON in order to program the control module. Since the VIN information is broadcast when the ignition goes to ON from any other ignition switch position, DTCs may be set in the SDM and/or the radio. Therefore, always follow the specified control module replacement procedures.

:

[Logan]

As for the PCM question.....There is one flood car I know of....every single module (cluster..radio..included) in the car had to be swapped out with the donor vehicle. So the actual car had the original VIN....and the car network had a different VIN.

As for the mileage of the vehicle...there is nothing illegal about swapping in a cluster in with a different mileage. What is illegal is if you try to sell the vehicle as having that 'mileage' without noting that the mileage is not correct.

[murray-eliminator]

From what I have read, it's the main power source that goes out on these clusters. It seems to be a issue on these digital clusters, and I'm no electronics guy so unless it's a easy plug & play switch. it's not happening. i may do some research to find out what's involved..

[murray-eliminator]

Sucsess!! Bought the PCM from the same car as the gauge cluster and installed it, Engine fired fight up! Car runs and drives great. the only lights on are the service engine soon and the airbag light. if i cycle it through 20 ignition cycles it should reset the PCM and read the information from car correct?. or do i need to do the 30 Min re learn?. And Thank everyone for all the help. this was a lesson learned for me!.the only thing that sux is the car originally had 85k miles and the new cluster shows 177x.. but I have paper work showing the true milage.. and the old parts. so the next owner can live with it, or go through the re programming..