Blog Post: The great Cadillac CTS seat experiment

[Bruce Nunnally]

Hmm, one day I noted that a pair of my slacks had a scraped spot on the rear pocket.  That seemed odd.  Must have gotten up against a brick wall, or perhaps brushed against something sharp?Uh oh — a second pair came out of the wash with a similar marking.  And a third. Hmm.  So [...]

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[Texas Jim]

Good luck on adding the new seats.

Keep us posted on the progress and the pitfalls. (if any)

[Bruce Nunnally]

It should be a simple pull out the old seats, plug in the new seats. That is not always how things work out of course.

[Texas Jim]

It should be a simple pull out the old seats, plug in the new seats.

That is not always how things work out of course.

Yeah..."THAT" was what I was getting at.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Seats arrived safely on Tuesday. Each seat was in two pieces, the back taken off the base for shipping. They arrived with 2 long bolts (like #23, which is actually used twice in that long bracing arm), one short bolt (which looks like it is maybe #39), and one nut (like #22) as assembly items.

I am using a diagram from compnine.com to think through re-assembly.

The zen of this type of project is studying everything to understand how it should go together. I have Friday all day to spend with the seat project so I am hoping I will get one or both installed then. The mechanical part seems set, but I need to understand better how each of the electronic plugs get attached better -- to determine when each plug needs to get plugged in. My impression is after the seat is installed there is little room to reach, so you have to kind of get the seat nearly in place, then plug everything in, then seat the rails.

[adallak]

A side note. Those side supports on the seats. I do not really see much use of them. IMHO, they are just annoyance which makes getting in and out of my 95 Fleetwood even more difficult to say least.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Got the new power passenger seat properly reassembled with trim and all. Pulled out the manual passenger seat, and installed the new power passenger seat. Power to the electrics works fine and the seat moves in all axes properly including lumbar adjustment.

Problem: Service air bag DIC message is on. Battery was disconnected and re-connected. Re-checked the airbag connection in the new power seat to ensure it was properly plugged in (only will plug in one way). Tried simply unplugging the seat airbag but still get the same error message.

I tested the passenger seat sensor and it is working properly. When no one is in the seat the passenger bag is off; when I sit in the passenger seat the bag is on according to the display in the mirror.

Possibilities:

1) anytime an airbag is changed the system has to be 'reset'?

2) the airbag in the new power passenger seat is bad?

3) the wiring running to the bag and/or seat sensor are bad?

[Texas Jim]

Bruce,

My money is on #1.

Since it has a new/different air bag.

I would think that the System needs to be reset to properly recognize that it has to been replaced.

My opinion... for whatever it is worth.

[Bruce Nunnally]

oddly, the scan tool I have shows no DTC codes.

[Bruce Nunnally]

My current theory is that the Tech II has to be used to calibrate the system to each passenger presence sensor (the thing in the seat that detects a passenger). So anytime you repair/replace the seat the Tech II has to be used to relearn the seat sensor? or similar

[Bruce Nunnally]

The passenger presence system (PPS) is a calibrated system that requires checking for preloads within each region when the system has been serviced or replaced. If the passenger seat bottom cushion or seat bottom trim has been serviced, reinstalled, or removed for any reason, the procedure below was designed to assist in checking for preloads of the PPS

With the scan tool command the Preload Passenger Presence System procedure.

[Bruce Nunnally]

I replaced the missing recline lever on the original equipment manual seat and re-installed it. The service air bag light is still on, which suggests that it has to go to the dealer to be tech II'd. I emailed Crest to see if they would be willing to run a relearn on the PPS.

[Bruce Nunnally]

I put the power passenger seat back in, and put in the power driver's seat. This fixes the broken trim issue on the driver's seat, and it adds adjustable lumbar as compared with the stock base seat.

BEFORE:

<a href=" title="100_0949 by bwnunnally, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4014/4427678095_5294545437.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="100_0949" /></a>

AFTER:

<a href=" title="Photo0201 by bwnunnally, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/4433240477_fb9580e645.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Photo0201" /></a>

Yes, I need to order new mats next.

Off to the dealer (Crest Cadillac in Plano) this week to see why the Service Airbag light is on. Hopefully it just has to be 'reset'.

[Texas Jim]

That looks real nice, Bruce.

I hope it is something simple regarding the airbag light.

It "SHOULD" be just a reset.

[CarlaValentine]

Bruce, overall would you say this was an easy swap? My driver's seat is in sad shape and I am going to get a new, or at least nice looking used, one for it when spring is finally here.

[Bruce Nunnally]

I would rate it overall as very easy. The only confusion factor was that the recycle yard took the seats apart for shipping, so I had to study the diagram to get how they needed to go together. There were also several plugs between the seat back and the seat base that had to be connected.

The seat has a front toe and two rear bolts, one bolt in the floor board and one bolt in the side rail. Unbolt it, then lean it forward and pull upward to unseat the front tabbed toe from the floorboard. Then set the seat down and lean it back and unplug it. There are only two main plugs between the car and the seat, a gray for the power and a yellow for the airbag.

To disengage the tabbed toe on the front of the seat from the floorboard I sat in the rear seat, then slid my feet under the front seat, then pushed with my hands on the seat back to lean it forward and pushed upward with my feet to lift it out of the slots. That seemed to work very well.

Warning: the yellow plug is the airbag, so for safety you should disconnect the main battery, pull the airbag fuse, and wait 1 hour before unplugging. I also made sure to open the door so that if the seat airbag did go off, it would do minimal damage.

Then lift it out of the car.

Installation is the reverse. The seat weighs 90 lbs or so, and is a close fit to get into the car, but not really hard to pull out or put in as long as the weight of it is not an issue.

[Bruce Nunnally]

I setup an appointment at Crest for Wednesday, so hopefully they can run a passenger presence system (PPS) relearn and the airbag light will be fixed.

[CarlaValentine]

Thank you. I don't think I will have to worry about the airbag thing. Mine only has them on the dash and steering wheel. I didn't think it would be too bad. I'll have to get someone else to do the lifting if they are heavy though.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Interesting twist -- my driver's seat is now apparently a memory position seat, although my CTS does not have memory position settings.

I can tell this because whenever I unlock the door with my remote control the seat moves back to default position.

I suppose my next project will have to be finding the switch pad for the driver's door, or a new driver door skin with switchpad for the memory seat position.

CTS to Crest in Plano Wed at 7 am for the Service Airbag.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Ah, my door looks like this:

<a href=" title="100_0952 by bwnunnally, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2745/4438809615_46f3a7a87d.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="100_0952" /></a>

and I need the switch panel that looks like this, and has the memory seating selector:

And oddly enough, one is for sale on ebay separately.

[Texas Jim]

Very cool.

Now you will have memory seats.

I like memory seats... they are very convenient.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Every experiment turns into an adventure lol.

I suspect I just need the different control panel, but we'll see. I would not mind changing the door trim panels to the wood trim door handle ones, but just changing out the control panel seems much simpler. Can't ask for an odder thing to find in my color for sale on ebay, and here in Dallas no less.

Anxious to hear what the Dealer has to share tomorrow on the Service Airbag flag.

Starting to zone in on a 2007 CTS-V with 6L LS2 V8 as my next vehicle I think. 400 hp out of the box, but cam/heads/intake/tuning and it can make 500 hp, which would make a really nice sports sedan for a few years. Starting to look for a nice example with under 30K miles, preferably under 20K miles, and budgeting around $25K. They tend to be offered around $32-35, but I have a year or so to shop. The 2006 was similar, but I think the 07 as the last of the gen 1 would be the year to grab up.

[Texas Jim]

Every experiment turns into an adventure lol.

I suspect I just need the different control panel, but we'll see. I would not mind changing the door trim panels to the wood trim door handle ones, but just changing out the control panel seems much simpler. Can't ask for an odder thing to find in my color for sale on ebay, and here in Dallas no less.

Anxious to hear what the Dealer has to share tomorrow on the Service Airbag flag.

Starting to zone in on a 2007 CTS-V with 6L LS2 V8 as my next vehicle I think. 400 hp out of the box, but cam/heads/intake/tuning and it can make 500 hp, which would make a really nice sports sedan for a few years. Starting to look for a nice example with under 30K miles, preferably under 20K miles, and budgeting around $25K. They tend to be offered around $32-35, but I have a year or so to shop. The 2006 was similar, but I think the 07 as the last of the gen 1 would be the year to grab up.

I am glad to see the seat experiment is working out ok.

I agree that the 2007 "V" would probably be the best one to get.

In reading the "OTHER" V forum.... it seems like there were a lot of improvements from year to year and the 2007 would be the best of the best of the first gen "V".

Good luck in your hunt... and I want to be the first Caddyinfo member to see it.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Dealer called and reported that the seatbelt pretensioners on both seats are showing as problems, so they are replacing both. Have to wait overnight for parts.

[Bruce Nunnally]

In the diagram above item 31 is the seat belt pretensioner. The pretensioner is a "BELT KIT,D/SEAT(BKL SI)(NEUTRAL)(FLAMMABLE SOLID-CONTAINS PYROTECHNIC SLACK ADJUSTER)", GM p/n 89024401 for power passenger, 02 for manual, or similar depending on color. The MSRP is around $110-114 each.

Apparently the pretensioner is a small explosive device that removes the slack from the seatbelt if the airbag goes off. My 04 CTS had to have one replaced, so I have come to think of them as fairly sensitive. I also see GM has at least one TSB out that says to check for good connections before replacing these sensors, as sometimes a poor connection can look like a bad sensor. US and export models also have different part numbers for this item.

It appears that the pretensioners are integral with the seat belt buckle receiver portion.