tm8272 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Went to dealer to pick up car this evening. They gave me a invoice that said= Radiator leak, head gasket leak, the cost to repair is more than value of vehicle, Replace Engine!!! The car looks great, my friend came with me and drove my vehicle back to my place. As I followed, only another 5 miles from home, he pulled over. Said have to leave it and come back later when cool. The warning light on Dash said "Stop Engine". I guess not much coolant left from dealer?? So we will wait an hour, and go back with water and put in it and hope to drive it home and put it in my garage. I do have AAA towing, but will try this first. So does anyone know of cheapest option, rebuild the Northstar or get used Engine?? The dealer did say they try to find used engines at salvage yards all the time but hard to find. Any links to rebuilt engines would be great too!! Thanks!!! Tara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I would confim the head gasket diagnosis with a combustion byproduct test kit from NAPA. If the head gasket(s) have failed, the repair is straight forward however labor intensive. Depending on how close you are to the Great Lakes, there is a fellow (Jake) in southern Ontario who has developed a bullet proof method of repairing the top end of Northstars. With a tow car and a dolly under the front wheels of your Cadillac, you might consider hauling the car to Jake and buy yourself another five+ years. I would never install a used engine in unknown condition. That is a roll of the dice. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm8272 Posted August 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Thanks for the suggestion. I just found a site in Canada called Northstar Performance, is this the guy Jake your talking about?? I'm in Louisville, Ky but from Cleveland Oh and do have a 1 ton diesel truck and trailer that I could tow vehicle if the cost was that much cheaper and the work was done right. I agree and do not want to risk a used engine like the dealer suggested!!! I have seen posts on here where some engines have been rebuilt at 55,000 miles while under warranty!! Very risky for sure to do used engine. I was able to drive the car home tonight after putting several gallons of water in the overflow tank. It was only about 5 miles and drove about 40 mph. The temp only got to 200 by the time I pulled it in the garage. I was worried that I caused futher damage with it saying Stop Engine, but ran and drove smooth. Very frustrating cause no white smoke and no other symptoms except the raidator leak on the front right, from side plastic tank. The dealer said that is usually what causes the leak is the head gaskets. Invoice said = Radiator leaking Headbolts Pulled Needs Engine-repairs exceed value of car. They claimed they did pressure test and die test??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Sounds kinda...sorta...almost ...like they didn't want to mess with it. They may be 100% correct about the headbolts, but it may also be nothing more than a bad radiator. I don't see how they can tell that the headbolts are pulled with out partially tearing it down. Do as some of the others have suggested...get the Combustion Test Kit...and check it your self. Then you will KNOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Thanks for the suggestion. I just found a site in Canada called Northstar Performance, is this the guy Jake your talking about?? Yes. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Olsson Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Sounds kinda...sorta...almost ...like they didn't want to mess with it. They may be 100% correct about the headbolts, but it may also be nothing more than a bad radiator. I don't see how they can tell that the headbolts are pulled with out partially tearing it down. Do as some of the others have suggested...get the Combustion Test Kit...and check it your self. Then you will KNOW. Ditto that. To claim that the head bolts have pulled is plain silly. And to say that you need a new engine is absolute BS! Even in the worst case all yoou'll need is a pair of gaskets and a Time-sert kit. It can be a bit time-consuming to do but it is not a hard job. I would stay awway from heal-a-seal and other stuff like that. I would also stay away from studs. I know that there is this fancy stud kit solving all of your problems for the entire life..hmm. If you use Time-serts (which is the APPROVED repair) and follow the instructions it will work at least as good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 a 1994 sls. 15yrs old. have you had it long? i think its worth 2-3k if its running with no major issues. its a nice car but it is getting old. is it worth throwing 3k into a motor repair? fixing it yourself is certainly less money but you need major patience and some mechanical skills. you can't really expect someone else to fix it and not pay them a fair price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 The pressure and dye test in my opinion would not definitively tell you that you had head gasket problems, if you have a radiator leak, as you would lose pressure from the radiator leak. That is unless, the head gaskets were leaking externally and they could see that with the dye. I currently have overheating problems from head gasket leakage. While I have not ripped the engine apart yet, the causes are 1) head gasket deterioration from coolant that went acidic beyond its change interval and 2) pulled head bolts. Your 94 Northstar has green coolant, it is required that it is changed every 2 years or 24,000 miles, if it goes beyond that required change interval, the coolant loses its corrosion protection and it can attack the head gasket, starting the cycle of bolt thread damage. My 96 engine has the newer Dexcool that was introduced in 96, and its change interval is 5 years or 100,000 miles. Good Luck with your decision, I am wracking my brain right now trying to decide if I should do it and how, my thought process is: 1) Should I do it at all, as the surrounding aluminum material can be compromised and time serting the bolt holes is not successful as a result of the weakened material 2) should I pull the engine out or drop the carriage and lift the body? Dropping the carriage allows me to use the carriage as an engine stand. I will still have to detach the engine as I need to do the case half seals, so pulling the engine out of the top probably makes sense 3) Do I want to do so much work on a 96? 4) Do I want to timesert or use studs? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I timeserted my motor and got metal shavings from each bolt hole. I tightened the headbolts and several of them actually made a loud crack sound at the final torque stage. I got a somewhat nagging feeling from that. not sure if the inserts were actually turning. i have read that the bolts can be loosened and retightened as long as the motor is not heat cycled. i did not try that. too late now. i have put 10k miles on in almost 2yrs and coolant level is fine. just a FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I timeserted my motor and got metal shavings from each bolt hole. I tightened the headbolts and several of them actually made a loud crack sound at the final torque stage. I got a somewhat nagging feeling from that. not sure if the inserts were actually turning. i have read that the bolts can be loosened and retightened as long as the motor is not heat cycled. i did not try that. too late now. i have put 10k miles on in almost 2yrs and coolant level is fine. just a FYI. Joe explain this better for me. You said you got metal shavings from each bolt hole. Are you saying that, the metal was good? Thanks Did you drop your carriage or pull the engine Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm8272 Posted August 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Thanks for the input and insight on this! I agree that the dealer did not want to mess with it. Charged me 42.00 for pressure testing radiator and said that they have seen this before, where the bad head gaskets have caused the radiator to go!!! I asked them on the phone how did they know that the head gaskets were leaking? They told me they do a die test and check for a chemical in the coolant too?? When I picked up the car I asked where the radiator was leaking?? I knew before I pulled it out of my garage it leaked!! I do have both Cadillac service manual books I bought a few years ago for 125.00 so I consulted those and seen the plastic end tanks on both sides of radiator. The one plastic end tank houses a transmission oil cooler and the right side has plastic end tank has engine oil cooler. So I asked them, is my radiator fins bad or where exactly is the leak?? Then they said on the plastic end tank!! So really a waste of my time to take it to them. I have owned the car since 46,000 miles bought from dealer pre-certified and with warranty. I'm second owner. At 60,000 miles I started using Penzoil full synthetic oil at 70.00 an oil change every 3,000 miles. Even though they said I could go up to 5,000 miles on oil change. I did that for the very reason of trying to make the engine last and protect it. I was shocked when they said I need a new engine!!! I did know about the coolant change every 2 years and had the coolant changed last May at a local garage in my area. Not sure if they did the pellet supplement at that time? This past November I had an issue where the inside of my windshield fogged up as I got back in my car after making a pit stop. I also smelled a little antifreeze smell inside of the car. I thought it might be my heater core going bad and didnt want to deal with it coming winter so I did put a bottle of bars stop leak in radiator and then did not have the problem of windshield fogging up and drove fine all winter. Not sure if that plugged something to cause other issues or not?? I have had a bad experience years ago with another dealer, it was a Ford dealer out of state. I had a Lincoln Mark 7 with the big v 8 engine, beautiful royal blue car and leather and loaded. Big demand used and dealers couldnt get there hands on enough!! My car back fired and died in front of the Ford dealer at night and they were closed. It would not restart!! Had a friend following me at the time so we just pushed it in dealer parking lot and came back the next morning and had them check it out. They took several days and finally called me to say that I needed everything with the fuel system!! Quoted me fuel pump, fuel filter and more!! Around 1200.00 back in 1993. I told them car paid off but I dont have that money right now. I will have to have it towed home for now and let it sit. Then they suggested I trade it in and would give me a good price!! So I contacted my cousin that new a mechanic that ran race cars and worked on them and had a shop. He said just have it towed over for me to check it out. All you will have in it is the tow bill. I wont charge you for checking it out. So I called a tow truck and had it towed from dealer to his shop. He called me the next day. Said I was getting same symtoms on my machines testing it as the dealer did but then I put my ear back by the gas tank as another mechanic turned the key and heard the fuel pump trying to work!! So I put a few gallons of gas in it and she started right up!!! Just dont pass to many gas stations in the future before stopping!!! The gas gage showed a 1/4 of a tank!!! It had malfunctioned and stopped working and I WAS OUT OF GAS!!!! Unbelievable. So again even with all the high tech equipment, it takes a little common sense to look at history of car and if it was well taken care of and or abused and not maintained. So with that past experience, I dont believe my engine is dead. I have read that the older pre-2000 model engines are stronger and the 94 and 95 Northstar is the only engines you can SUPERCHARGE and put a chip in!! I will have to do the test kit as someone mentioned and then replace the radiator and go from there. The radiator being original, it could just be a radiator that failed. A plugged line that caused the plastic tank to fail. Thanks again for all your thoughts and suggestions again!! I just need to find a local mechanic that is familiar with the Northstar like the one mechanic that ran race cars out of state that helped me out on my Lincoln years ago!! If anyone knows any within a 100 miles of me let me know!! Love this site and enjoy sharing and hearing other members experience. I have read elswhere that US Engines out of WA have rebuilt Northstars with 7yr 100,000 warranty for 3500.00 I will confirm that and go that route if that is the final result a bad engine. I just got full coverage insurance on car again with it being classified as Classic car 15yrs old and only 200.00 deductible!! Cheap!! If I do a new car, there goes the insurance rate again!!! lol I do have other vehciles but have a passion for the Cadillac and will restore it and keep it. With all the vehicles being crushed with trade in program there might not be that many Cadillacs preserved later and could be collectors car. Especially with all the new hybrids on the market today. Tara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 a dealer is kinda behind the 8 ball when someone comes in with a 15yr old car. i can just about guarantee that they will try to talk you into a new car/trade-in. they know you will scream when they say 5k for a headgasket job and besides, they don't really want to do it. yes, they will do it on a newer car with a warranty. so they try and talk you into a new motor. even more $$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I dont believe my engine is dead. It's not. It can be repaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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