Brad Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Here we go again ladies and gents! For those of you from the old board who read and answered my post named "Inspection Saga", here is the follow up. Original post is here: http://caddymb.netgetgoing.com/messageDeta...MessageId=36340 Got my Caddy back from the dealer last night. They changed coolant, spark plugs/wires, and checked for codes that might have been set when my car last went through inspection. They signed off on car - emissions - fine, car - fine. No worries. Decide to head back to inspection station this morning (after getting car smoking hot and blown out) to get this taken care of once and for all. Get in the lane, they tell me to step out and go into the building (just as before) and there I am......watching through the glass again and guess what I see? Another guy accessing the diagnostics again!!! So, I quickly head out into the lane and say, "I hope you are not accessing the diagnostics again! The last time I was here, I had no codes or warning lights until you guys screwed it up!" I additionally waived the papers from the dealer expressing there is nothing wrong with the car. I was promptly told that all cars '97 and newer were now being subjected to the diagnostic check. Apparently, they just don't tell the general public about these new procedures........Go figure. So, I say, "if you find codes or warning lights, it's because you guys are screwing it up because I just had the dealer do this yesterday!" (Because of course, we are dealing with highly skilled and trained automotive personnel here!) I then go back inside. I noticed that they had finished the inspection and I went out to get my car and guess what? My "Service Engine Soon" and "Traction Control" lights are on again!! So, I raised hell about that, but they proceeded to pass me - thank god - it might have gotten ugly otherwise. But the fun doesn't end here. They hand me a printout of what the code was - "P1131 - Unknown Code". (It isn't even in the service manual - I checked) I said, "how can you justify this - you can't even tell me what this is for Christ's Sake! So, I told them that I didn't have any problems before coming here and just yesterday the dealer ran the diagnostics (paperwork to prove it) and came up empty so how is it that you guys are screwing this up? I got a song and dance act about that the dealer must disconnect the battery before running the diagnostics and that they do not and that is why the discrepancy. HOW MUCH SENSE DOES THAT MAKE? How can you run codes with no power? I also said that the computer is just reacting to you guys accessing it wrong and throwing codes - all codes this time were identical to last time - meaning they screwed it up. We went round and round and as I got more angry I saw that my points were not getting anywhere so I took my passing sticker and ran with it. My biggest point here is that when I have to go back in 2 years the car will fail again because these ignorant bastards keep f'ing it up. Great system. I don't even know what to say at this moment, except I can relaxe now for 2 years. However, for all you guys who have to go through inspections, watch them like hawks. Brad ---------------------------- 1999 Deville Concours [sOLD] Blk/Blk w/gold package Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 What's the point of disconnecting the battery cable??? Any codes would be lost. I don't see how the inspection monkies can be setting codes in the car though....They seem to think they know more than the dealer which is an obvious warning sign... I sure am glad that inspections are not required in my area! Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careldo Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Same here no inspections in my are thank the lord because if it was me in your shoes i think i might have been arrested for assaulting these SOB'S for hurting my baby. careldo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Concours Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Man, I'm glad we don't have inspections here either. Maybe next time you can access the codes for them thru the DIC. I couldn't find a P1131 in my service manual, but did a google for p1131 dtc. Came up with a ford trouble code for a 97Expedition and it says P1131 is HO2 sensor not switching--Too Lean. Also found a complet list of codes at www.spang.co.uk/dtc_list.htm. It says p1131 is Lack of HO2S switch-Sensor indicates lean. Maybe this will help? Jeff 98 Concours 90 Seville 04 Corvette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Your dealership should be able to do the inspection for you. Most dealerships are licensed inspection stations. Was your dealership not? We have yearly inspections in North Carolina and it doesn't take more than 15 minutes to have an appointment with the Caddy dealer and let them handle it. When I lived in Virginia, we had tailpipe emissions every two years. They would put the car on the sniffer and actually sniff the tailpipe. Here in North Carolina, they don't sniff the pipe, but they plug you in to the computer. Doesn't take but a second. I can understand your pain, though...if it kept getting screwed up by this independent shop. Again, my advice would be to search for a dealership who is certified to do the inspection for you and you won't have to visit anybody else. Personally, I'm grateful for state vehicle inspections (this'll open a can of worms I'm sure). For people like us, it shouldn't take more than a half hour every year to abide by the law (obviously, there are some rare instances like above) and I believe the inspections keep cars off the road that don't need to be there. Assuming the inspections are performed properly (which is another issue completely), I'd much rather pay 10 bucks a year and know EVERYONE elses car is safe than to save the 10 dollars and 30 minutes and have some hotshot run into me because one of his front ball joints was busted and he didn't even know about it (or care enough to fix it). My $0.02... Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Georgia has an annual emissions inspection program in 13(?) counties. For 1996+ vehicles, they plug in and read the codes; for OBDI, they use a tailpipe sniffer and I have no clue where the cut-off is for older vehicles that are exempt. If the vehicle fails, you cannot renew registration until it is repaired (with a very few hardship exceptions). Your pass/fail status is entered into the state DOT database by the inspection station and the county tag office looks you up by VIN before renewing tags. There is no requirement for a mechanical condition/safety inspection (unfortunately). Those of you in non-inspected areas, keep looking over your shoulder because the EPA is monitoring 'air quality' in metro areas. If I remember correctly, Chicago and East St. Louis were recently added to the emissions inspections list. Not a bad concept for cleaner air, but the inspection stations are operated by independent business folks (at least in GA) and the opportunity for mayhem exists. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Cumberland County (my county) received EPA non-attainment status this year, and they implemented the OBD test. It's odd -- in this case, 1995 and older vehicles don't participate at all. It's either a computer scan for '96 and newer or nothing (just the safety check) for '95 and older. Some of the larger cities in North Carolina actually have NCDOT-run inspection stations -- sort of a drive-thru event. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist everywhere (including Fayetteville), which is why I looked toward a dealership to minimize my risk of a bogus place. We had the Seville inspected by Bryan Cadillac and ironically, I had my Nissan inspected by Flow Oldsmobile, since it was the closest dealership to us (the Nissan place is way 'cross town)! I think the inspection process gets a poor reputation from its implementation rather than its purpose. If the inspection process went as smoothly for some as it does for most, it'd really be a non-issue. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davedog Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 no inspections here in GA......woohoo (sorry <_> Crystal Red Tintcoat Exterior | Shale/Brownstone Interior | 32k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike98c Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 In Minnesota we had inspections fo a while before being discontinued. I THINK it was discontinued because (someone correct me if they know) the percentage drop in tailpipe emmisions matched the no. of older cars being replaced by newer cars and the percentage was barely effected by the emmisions test and repair legislation. After a few years the air quality had improved enough to discontinue the program if the state wished and satisfy the EPA . Interestingly it has been estimated that if you could buy up all the twenty year + daily runners and crush them (politically impossible) you would save a ton of money over inspections and clean up the air much much quicker. That said I think there should be at least saftey inspections carried out in a professional manner by well trained personnel. I think the testing contract was let to a specific company in Minnesota. If as a news program documented the company was employing poorly trained people or faulty procedures in some of their stations you could very well be screwed. One company with one data base and one set of improper procedures could be very costly for a vehicle owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Inspection Station horror story... A friend of mine took her old Corvette Stingray to inspection. The fat bastard who got in her car at the inspection station broke the back of the driver seat. Oh what fun that was getting it replaced and recovering her money from the State of New Jersey. Took about 3 months but she got her money back. The inspection system here in New Jersey is pretty much a mess. They never seem to fix the problems but they always use the problems to raise your yearly registration fees. You go to inspection every two years and have a choice of going to the state inspection station or a private station. There is so much nonsense and corruption that what I see driving on the roads in New Jersey with so-called "valid" inspection stickers is a joke. Almost all the pollution in New Jersey comes from coal fired power plants down wind from us, like in Virginia, or so the politicians say. What ever the source, I do hope they get it fixed soon. New Jersey has the highest cancer death rate in the world and the highest asthma death rate in the world. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Geeezzz...and I thought we had it bad out here in Ca..if you own cars built prior to 1974 there's no nothin'..nada. You just drive and enjoy the heck out of the old rides. Almost all you see that old out here these days are classics in great condition, and you see a lot of them. After that, ('74 on ) there's a smog inspection (on a dyno) that you have to pass every two years. Yes, it can be a PIA but not too bad if you keep your motor and exhaust system in good shape and not mess with it too much. (Or do it intelligently, if you do perform any modifications).. There are ways to play and pass.. All in all, after reading this string I realize we don't have it as bad as some of us have been thinking. I'll remeber to pass it on next time I hear some ranting... '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95concours Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 I live in new jersey too and my 95 concours failed for a "bad gas cap". What a pia!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 I live in new jersey too and my 95 concours failed for a "bad gas cap". What a pia!! You're lucky that's all it failed for. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 In West Virginia we have yearly inspections that consist of checking all lights, brakes, glass and to make sure you can not stick your finger in the rust holes. Thank God there is no Emissions tests. I remember reading that New Jerseys Inspections are made to fail 75% of the older cars. Maybe someone from there can verify this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=e...UVFeXk2NDgyMTMw According to this article in the Bergen Record, the new test fails cars at a rate of almost double over the older test. (copied from the article): "RISING FAILURES: An increasing number of cars are failing state-run emissions tests. MARCH-JULY 2002 Pass: 435,357 Fail: 9,040 AUG.-DEC. 2003 Pass: 480,000 (approx.) Fail: 20,000 (approx.) The 2002 numbers result from a computerized analysis by The Record of data obtained from the state Motor Vehicles Commission. The Record analyzed the results of initial inspections on 1997-2002 model year cars for a five-month period in 2002 at state-run stations. Those ranges were used to most closely match the results released by the state for 2003." Judge for yourself..... If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentham Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 You want to talk about inspections.. ha! Just took the Blazer in yesterday to Firestone [only $6, reg. inspection is $19] otherwise, I wouldnt have went there. Anywho, they are 'inspecting my car, they come up with 2 new wiper blades [which were just replaced 1 month ago, they're fine.. no big deal..] Also, new tires, [tires were put on 8,000 miles ago, (all 4) ] So, as to why 1 could be bad, other than WOT..,which I don't do, honest. But.... here's the kicker, a new ball joint, serpentine belt, idler arm... final total $1,183.76 I laughed and said 'ok, take her off the lift, I gotta go to class' They were dumbfounded that I didn't want to have ANY work done. Also, the car was at the dealer 200 miles before taking it off the road... they checked EVERYTHING. So,unless the ball joint and idler arm can become loose while sitting..,or ONE tire can lose tread while sitting, theres a problem -Eric Eric 93 Cad Seville 100K 95 Chev Blazer 143K [garaged summers] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 You want to talk about inspections.. ha! Just took the Blazer in yesterday to Firestone [only $6, reg. inspection is $19] otherwise, I wouldnt have went there. Anywho, they are 'inspecting my car, they come up with 2 new wiper blades [which were just replaced 1 month ago, they're fine.. no big deal..] Also, new tires, [tires were put on 8,000 miles ago, (all 4) ] So, as to why 1 could be bad, other than WOT..,which I don't do, honest. But.... here's the kicker, a new ball joint, serpentine belt, idler arm... final total $1,183.76I laughed and said 'ok, take her off the lift, I gotta go to class' They were dumbfounded that I didn't want to have ANY work done. Also, the car was at the dealer 200 miles before taking it off the road... they checked EVERYTHING. So,unless the ball joint and idler arm can become loose while sitting..,or ONE tire can lose tread while sitting, theres a problem -Eric What state is this?? Let me see if I understand the methodology here...You are required by state law to meet certain inspection criteria how often? The shop the discovers the discrepancies ("failures"?) is also the shop that is authorized to do the repair work?..And if you refuse, does the registration go on hold, until the inspection is satisfied and certified ? This all sound ripe for corruption, if it's even close to true.. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 I don't think any of the items that they're "suggesting" would be required to pass inspection...they just want to make money off you. They should have hanging on the wall the inspection procedures and the tolerances/limits. For instance, unless they can prove that your tires have less than 3/32" tread left (or whatever the threshold is in your state), they can't fail you for tires (unless there's a deep cut in one of them, etc). It sounds like the thoroughly inspected the steering and suspension, and probably found some play in the idler arm and are suggesting replacement. That may or may not be mandatory for the safety inspection. The ball joint might, though. The boot may be torn, and who knows how long it's been that way, and who knows when it might break. Same with the serpentine belt. They obviously have reasons for suggesting this work, and I'd certainly ask to see their technician's notes about it, to even to talk to that person. I'd certainly want to know about a ball joint that looks questionable...if it really is about to break. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 MUST BE BAD SIR......you need new steering joints.....duh...perfectly normal...oldest con in the auto repair business. Another pofit generating angle all too commonly used is the "torn CV boot". I actually had a car go in for an oil change and later got the phone call about the "torn boot"... I've heard this from guys that work in the bussiness, and experienced it myself. Well, I'm the type that thoroughly inspects my car moments before I let anybody I'm not completely familiar with work on it. That torn boot just mentioned occurred at the end of a screwdriver... To make a long story short, the entire CV half shaft was replaced at no cost to me, with a new OEM one from the dealer at my insistance. Of couse, that oufit never saw one of my cars again. And funny thing... after the grapevine here at my company distributed the report, there was a marked drop in this guy's bussiness, as it is rather close to this place, and was frequented by more than a few people here. The parking lot there has been rather empty for some time now.. Unless you have a mechanic you can completely trust (which I have fore some time now) inspect every detail possible on your car before you let any shop near it. Digital photographs are quick, cheap, and really make an impression during a dissagrement. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 They obviously have reasons for suggesting this work Yea, profit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 Or maybe they're simply being honest. There ARE honest shops out there ya know! In any case, it won't hurt ANYTHING to go talk to them and see what they have to say. They'd look pretty stupid to not be able to explain any of their suggestions. Writing the shop off as bogus without even talking to them about work they suggest is throwing your inspection money out the window. Make that $6 take you as far as you can! Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentham Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 You want to talk about inspections.. ha! Just took the Blazer in yesterday to Firestone [only $6, reg. inspection is $19] otherwise, I wouldnt have went there. Anywho, they are 'inspecting my car, they come up with 2 new wiper blades [which were just replaced 1 month ago, they're fine.. no big deal..] Also, new tires, [tires were put on 8,000 miles ago, (all 4) ] So, as to why 1 could be bad, other than WOT..,which I don't do, honest. But.... here's the kicker, a new ball joint, serpentine belt, idler arm... final total $1,183.76I laughed and said 'ok, take her off the lift, I gotta go to class' They were dumbfounded that I didn't want to have ANY work done. Also, the car was at the dealer 200 miles before taking it off the road... they checked EVERYTHING. So,unless the ball joint and idler arm can become loose while sitting..,or ONE tire can lose tread while sitting, theres a problem -Eric What state is this?? Let me see if I understand the methodology here...You are required by state law to meet certain inspection criteria how often? The shop the discovers the discrepancies ("failures"?) is also the shop that is authorized to do the repair work?..And if you refuse, does the registration go on hold, until the inspection is satisfied and certified ? This all sound ripe for corruption, if it's even close to true.. good ol' NY is where I am. I am taking the Blazer to a dealer my dad frequents to have them 'inspect' it. Inspection is required every year by NY and its a $100 fine here in Buffalo if your car is uninspected, and you get caught. Throughout the years, NY has been dropping things from the list to pass inspection, last year.., it was the horn, this year, you don't even need your headlights aimed correctly to pass inspection. Seems to be just an easy way to get everyone into a repair shop atleast once a year, and while they're in there, see what they can 'find'. The Firestone worker said 'oh yea, ball joints are a common thing to go bad in ALL gms' Also, while I'm there.., a woman comes in, 'I'm getting vibration in my car[van]. NOT another word out of her mouth, and the Firestone guy says 'you're going to need atleast 2 new tires' As said earlier, knowledge is power. If they can take you, they will. -Eric Eric 93 Cad Seville 100K 95 Chev Blazer 143K [garaged summers] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growe3 Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Knowledge is power. Even if you don't do your own repairs, get familiar with your vehicle. Read the manuals when possible; try a library if you don't have your own manuals. Take digital photographs if you can (have the date stamp turned on) before having anyone look at your vehicle for repair estimates or state inspections. Ask for a clear explanation of what MUST be done and what they might like to do. Be sensible and realize that mechanical things will wear out and eventually will need repair or replacement. Report all fraudulent inspections to your state's auto repair fraud department. When you find a competent/good repair shop or dealer, let them know that you appreciate their integrity. Tell your friends. -George Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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