1998 DEVILLE TRANS. PROBLEM

[DJRATEDR]

FOR A WHILE NOW (COUPLE MOS. SINCE I GOT THE CAR IN AUGUST) THE P0741 CODE WAS SHOWING UP. NOW P1811 IS COMING UP TOO, AFTER I GET THE "SERVICE TRANSMISSION" MSG. WHEN THAT COMES ON THE CAR SHIFTS REALLY HARD. WHEN I RESET THE CODES IT STOPS. IT'S BECOMING A DAILY THING NOW.

ANOTHER DUMB THING I DID WAS OVERFILL MY FLUID. I ALSO NOTICE THAT ONCE THE CAR IS WARMED UP THE GEARS SHIFT FINE, BUT WHEN THE CARS COLD IT HESITATES TO GRAB IN DRIVE AND ALSO REVERSE. ONCE ON THE HIGHWAY, THE CAR RUNS LIKE A CHAMP.

ALSO, I WAS WONDERING WHETHER YOU SUGGEST I TAKE THE CAR TO A REPUTABLE TRANS. SHOP OR THE CADDILLAC DEALER AND SACRIFICE ONE OF MY ARMS AND LEGS? I'D REALLY LIKE TO KEEP THE CAR, BUT IF THIS IS A PRICEY FIX - WE'LL HAVE TO PART WAYS.

ANY IDEAS????

THANKS .... REGGIE

[JimD]

Your P0741 means the PCM thinks the torque converter is slipping too much and your description sounds like it is in fact slipping when cold.

Can you see or feel an engine RPM change (at or above 45 MPH) when you either lay your foot on the brake pedal OR lift the brake pedal with your toe? A mis-adjusted brake pedal switch can cause problems. Another possible pedal switch symptom is lack of cruise control engage.

Your P1811 means one or more of the shifts is taking too long. Fluid level can affect that somewhat. Is the fluid level correct? (in Park, level ground, engine at operating temperature).

[DJRATEDR]

Your P0741 means the PCM thinks the torque converter is slipping too much and your description sounds like it is in fact slipping when cold.

Can you see or feel an engine RPM change (at or above 45 MPH) when you either lay your foot on the brake pedal OR lift the brake pedal with your toe? A mis-adjusted brake pedal switch can cause problems. Another possible pedal switch symptom is lack of cruise control engage.

Your P1811 means one or more of the shifts is taking too long. Fluid level can affect that somewhat. Is the fluid level correct? (in Park, level ground, engine at operating temperature).

I DON'T FEEL ANY CHANGE IN RPMs AND THE FLUID LEVEL IS A BIT HIGH (MY FAULT). I OVERFILLED IT. WHEN THE "SERVICE TRANSMISSION" MESSAGE APPEARS, I NOTICE MY CAR LUNGES/BUMPS INTO GEAR AND WHEN I PARK, GOING FROM "R" TO "D" (VICA-VERSA) THE CAR REALLY MAKES A HUGE BUMP (LIKE I'M SHIFTING WITH THE RPMs REAL HIGH - WHEN THEY'RE NOT).

WOULD A REGULAR SERVICE (FLUID & FILTER CHANGE) RECTIFY THE SITUATION OR NOT? I'M STILL DEBATING WHETHER TO TAKE IT TO THE DEALERSHIP OR A TRANS. SHOP?

LIKE I SAID THO' .... THE CAR RUNS GREAT WHEN IT'S WARM AND ON THE HIGHWAY. IT'S WHEN I COME TO A STOP, IF I ACCELERATE NORMALLY OR A LIL' FAST, THE CAR BUMPS INTO SECOND AND THE "SERVICE TRANSMISSION" MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY APPEARS.

[Catch Me]

Wow that's right up there with do I take the boat to the shop and get it in the shorts or sink it.

I think a good service would be a start. If you added a fluid that wasn't the same as the fluid in the trans it can cause problems.

Since you did not buy the car new I can't see how you would know what trans fluid was in the car. So the chance of adding a different type / brand etc of fluid is very easy.

Ask around or check with the BBB and see if you can find a shop that will not clean out the old money clip for a rebuild you do not need.

You didn't say how many miles you have or I missed it but these transmissions are tough units that hold up a very long time if they are serviced.

By the way, when the service transmission light comes on it means just that. Kind of like the change the oil light.

Good luck.

[mmarinov]

You didn't say how many miles you have or I missed it but these transmissions are tough units that hold up a very long time if they are serviced.

I second this opinion as well - if you have the Northstar engine (4T80E transmission), these are supposedly GM's best transmission (read: high performance and durable) ever.

As far as the transmission fluid change, it would definitely be a good place to start. When you go to the dealer/trans shop make sure it isn't getting a transmission flush. Search the archives (or even the recent thread started by EGreen) for the merits of not letting them flush.

Instead, make sure they properly drop the pan, change filter, etc. Some of the old-timers may have more to say on your specific issue as I haven't had any trouble with my trans (105K).

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Mark

[DJRATEDR]

You didn't say how many miles you have or I missed it but these transmissions are tough units that hold up a very long time if they are serviced.

I second this opinion as well - if you have the Northstar engine (4T80E transmission), these are supposedly GM's best transmission (read: high performance and durable) ever.

As far as the transmission fluid change, it would definitely be a good place to start. When you go to the dealer/trans shop make sure it isn't getting a transmission flush. Search the archives (or even the recent thread started by EGreen) for the merits of not letting them flush.

Instead, make sure they properly drop the pan, change filter, etc. Some of the old-timers may have more to say on your specific issue as I haven't had any trouble with my trans (105K).

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Mark

YES, I HAVE THE NORTHY!!!

JUST PUT 168,000 ON IT AFTER A RETURN TRIP TO VIRGINIA MONDAY. BOUGHT THE CAR IN AUGUST ON EBAY AND DROVE IT HOME FROM BOSTON (RODE LIKE A DREAM). I READ ABOUT THE "FLUSHING" .... WON'T DO THAT. I DID PUT THAT SLICK 50 (MOLASSES) IN IT THINKING THAT MAY HELP CONDITION THE TRANNY - OOPS. NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT - PROBABLY TAKES A GOOD WHILE FOR THAT TO WARM UP. AFTERWARDS I ADDED FLUID. NOW, IT'S BEYOND FULL.

WELL, I'M GONNA ROLL THE DICE AND JUST TAKE IT TO A TRANS. SHOP AND HAVE THEM CHANGE THE FLUIDS, FILTERS ETC. "SERVICE THE TRANSMISSION." THERE'S A PRETTY REPUTABLE TRANS. SHOP NOT TOO FAR FROM HERE.

[Cadillac Jim]

Slick 50 isn't a good idea. Go to FTC.GOV and do a search on "Blue Coral" and see the FTC litigation against Slick 50. In 1984, they dropped the formulation that had been working for them, went to a PTFE (Teflon related powder) based formulation that isn't recommended by DuPont, the company that makes it for other purposes, and changed their name and marketing -- while continuing to use test data and endorsements for the formulation that they no longer used. A link that turned up when I was researching for this post is a 1996 complaint against Quaker State, who owned Slick-50 by then:

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/07/slick.htm

The company that makes the formula that Slick 50 used from 1975 to 1984 is XcelPlus, and their current trade name for the oil additive is Duralon, now marketed primarily to fuel-conscious commercial fleet operators. Duralon has done wonders for my wife's 1999 Pontiac Grand Am GT with HO V6, including adding snap to the throttle response and noticeably better fuel economy, but I haven't been able to find anyone who has used it in a DOHC engine. I asked here once about Duralon and found that XcelPlus and the whole idea of oil film additives has been tarred by the persistence of Slick 50 in its PTFE formulation but with Duralon test results and testimonials, the market dominance of Slick 50, and persistent FTC litigation and other pushback on lack of performance of Slick 50 relative to its claims. No one with any awareness of any of this will recommend any oil film additive. Since researching all this, I would never put any Slick 50 product in any vehicle. You can make your own decisions about other additives such as Duralon. I haven't put it in my Northstar and would wait for at least a year before posting anything about it if I did because of the Slick 50 cloud.

I would caution against gasoline additives for any purpose because the fuel pump has windings that are exposed to gasoline. You must be very careful that anything in your gas is compatible with the insulation on these windings. Anyone that makes such a product cannot be counted on to know about these problems, or to not be in denial about it if they have information about it.

You won't have any problem finding blogs and posts of people swearing by Slick 50, and I would imagine that a lot of them are sincere and truthful in the eyes of the one posting those things. You can also find endless posts touting the virtues of Astrology, Ouija boards, the New Age of Aquarius, and the current locations and Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa and the real killer of OJ's ex-wife. Let me know if you find any hard evidence that backs up any of them.

[DJRATEDR]

WELL, TODAY ON TURKEY DAY WE WERE ON OUR WAY TO MARYLAND AND THE CAR WAS GIVING ME THE SYMPTOMS I HAD READ ABOUT ON ANOTHER THREAD (NOT GOING INTO 3RD OR 4TH, THEN IT WENT INTO "LIMP HOME" MODE - 2ND GEAR), THEN IT JUST WOULDN'T GO INTO ANY GEAR.

LUCKILY WE WERE ON A DECLINE AND DRIFTED IT OFF THE HIGHWAY TO A GAS STATION. TRANNY SHOT OR JUST THE SOLENOIDS???? HOW MUCH AM I LOOKING AT SPENDING???? HELP - ANYONE ELSE HAD THIS PROBLEM OR KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS???

MAY BE UP FOR SALE - LOL. THE CAR IS IN IMMACULANT CONDITION OTHER THAN THIS PROBLEM ....

[Ranger]

I'm leaning towards solenoids. Solenoid kit is less than $100 at http://www.rockauto.com

Certainly worth looking into.

[DJRATEDR]

ANY IDEA WHAT I'D BE LOOKING AT IN LABOR TO FIX THIS? I DON'T HAVE THE PROPER EQUIPMENT TO FIX IT AND I INJURED MY BACK IN JANUARY AND AREN'T ABLE TO DO THE WORK ANYHOW. I ONLY PAID $1500 FOR THE CAR, SO ANY $$$ I PUT INTO IT WOULDN'T HURT TOO MUCH (ALTHOUGH I'M LEARY - THE CAR HAS 168,000. NOT SURE HOW MUCH LIFE EXPECTANCY NORTH*S HAVE - IT'S A STRONG RUNNER THOUGH .... GOT A SPEEDING TICKET LAST MONTH - COP "TRACKED" ME DOING "121.9" MPH (???). I WAS TOLD THOSE CARS HAVE A SPEED LIMITER AT 112MPH - OF COURSE I'M FIGHTING THE CASE).

[Ranger]

I recall someone saying that a solenoid change will run about $300 or so. Be advised though, most trans shops like Ammoco will tell you the trans is shot and you need a rebuild or a new trans.

Yeah, Devilles are limited to 112. I suspect telling the judge that it was impossible to go 121 because the car will shut down at 112 will be a hard sell. Good luck and let us know how you come out........ in both cases.

[Catch Me]

Well if the car was taken care of you are about half way done. Maybe it will run even longer than that.

I have seen many Northstars running around with close to 300K on them. Of course this out west where stop and go traffic is not a concern and the average speed people are doing is 75mph in town and 90-95 on the highway in traffic. Northstars were made for that stuff.

Anyway its a tough call.

New transmissions can run up in the low 3K area easy with labor.

When I bought this 94 SLS I have last summer I found a receipt in it for a new, not rebuilt trans from delco. The cost was close to 3500 and change installed.

That was in 2002. So I'm sure its more now. Good luck.

[DJRATEDR]

I recall someone saying that a solenoid change will run about $300 or so. Be advised though, most trans shops like Ammoco will tell you the trans is shot and you need a rebuild or a new trans.

Yeah, Devilles are limited to 112. I suspect telling the judge that it was impossible to go 121 because the car will shut down at 112 will be a hard sell. Good luck and let us know how you come out........ in both cases.

THAT WASN'T MY STRATEGY, BUT IF THE CAR ISN'T EVEN CAPABLE OF REACHING THAT SPEED .... MY LAWYER WILL HAVE A FIELD DAY WATCHING THE COP TRY TO EXPLAIN HOW HE ESTIMATES I WAS GOING THAT FAST. THAT'S GROUNDS FOR DISMISSAL. I JUST HAVE TO GET SOME SOLID PROOF/PAPERWORK OR FACTUAL DOCUMENTATION STATING THAT THE CAR IS INCAPABLE OF REACHING THAT SPEED.

AS FOR THE "NEW" TRANNY .... OUT OF THE QUESTION. I'M LOOKING FOR A BASIC CLEAN, REFILL AND SOLENOID REPLACEMENT. ANYTHING UNDER $1000 SOUNDS GOOD TO ME. $1500 FOR THE CAR, $1000 IN REPAIRS .... $2500 IS STILL A GOOD DEAL FOR A CAR IN THIS GOOD OF SHAPE. YOU COULD EAT OFF OF IT, CLEAN INSIDE AND NOT A FLAW ON THE PAINT, NEW TIRES ETC. I GUESS THEY JUST DIDN'T BELIEVE IN PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE - LOL!!!

[Ranger]

We have had several members with well over 200K and one or two over 300K.

[DJRATEDR]

IT'S ME AGAIN ....

SOME OF YOU MAY REMEMBER ANOTHER POST I SUBMITTED (1998 DEVILLE .... P0741 & P1811 DTC CODES). WELL, AS I STATED BEFORE THE "SERVICE TRANSMISSION" WARNING HAD APPEARED BACK IN AUGUST WHEN I 1ST BOUGHT THE CAR AND JUST STARTED APPEARING AGAIN ABOUT 2 WEEKS AGO.

I WAS ON MY WAY TO MD. FOR TURKEY DAY (I LIVE IN PA.) AND THE CAR STARTED BOUNCING BACK AND FORTH FROM 3RD & 4TH GEARS, THEN WENT INTO 2ND, ALL THE WHILE SLIPPING ABOUT 5 MILES DOWN THE ROAD, SO I DECIDED TO TURN BACK .... TRANNY JUST DIED ON ME AND I DRIFTED INTO A CONVENIENCE STORE/GAS STATION PARKING LOT WHERE IT NOW SITS.

I HEAR A LOT OF PEOPLE ON HERE SAYING THE TRANNY'S (4T80E) ARE ONE OF THE BEST AND THAT THE USUAL CULPRIT WITH TRANNY WOES ARE THE SOLENOIDS AND TORQUE CONVERTERS. MY CAR DOESN'T MOVE IN ANY GEAR (R,D,3,2). DOES IT STILL SEEM LIKE A TCC AND SOLENOID PROBLEM OR IS IT DUE FOR A NEW OR REBUILT TRANNY?

WITH ENGINE RUNNING, IT DOES APPEAR TO IDLE DOWN WHEN I PUT IT INTO R,D,3 OR 2, BUT IT DOESN'T MOVE. IS IT SHOT OR STILL SOUND LIKE A NOT SO PRICEY REPAIR??? HOW MUCH CASH SHOULD I BE PREPARED TO SHELL OUT???

THANKS,

REGGIE

[Cadillac Jim]

Did you have the transmission serviced in August?

Even a nice clean Caddy with that many miles, almost 10 years old, as a tow job with a bad tranny, will get you little to nothing as a trade or sale. Anything you put in the transmission that makes the car salable is a good investment. If you plan to drive it, then service and repair costs are a lot easier to justify.

I would say that the best thing that you cold do is to check the codes again and if there aren't any new ones, have a mechanic look at it. You can start with servicing it and looking at the solenoids. That will likely fix it with the price cap of $1K that you are talking. If not, you will know what you are looking at and still be in control without spending a lot of money.

[DJRATEDR]

WENT TO CHECK ON IT YESTERDAY .... I HAD PREVIOUSLY CLEARED THE CODES, BUT I DID SEE A "P-0630 .... ???" CODE. I HAD NOT GOTTEN IT SERVICED IN AUGUST BECAUSE THE MESSAGE NEVER AGAIN APPEARED UNTIL 2 WEEKS AGO.

WHEN I 1ST GOT THE CAR I NOTICED IT WOULD SEEM TO TAKE OFF IN 2ND GEAR ALL THE TIME. I LATER READ ON THIS FORUM THAT THE "ABS/TRACTION" MALFUNCTION WILL DISABLE 1ST GEAR. I DID THE TRICK WITH THE 1K RESISTORS IN THE WSS PLUGS AND GOT MY 1ST GEAR BACK (THANKS FOR THE TIP .... I FORGET WHO POSTED IT, BUT IT DID WORK). I'M THINKING THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THE BEGINNING TO MY TRANNY TROUBLES - TOO MUCH STRESS ON THE TRANNY.

I WAS THINKING OF GETTING A USED TRANNY, BUT REMEMBER A BAD EXPERIENCE I HAD WITH AN ACURA I HAD - BAD TRANNY, HAD TO DO A DOUBLE SWAP $$$$.

I'M AFRAID TO EVEN IMAGINE HOW MUCH A REBUILD WILL COST AND DON'T WANNA HAVE TO SHELL OUT $5-600. FOR AN ESTIMATE FOR NOTHING, IF IN FACT I CAN'T AFFORD THE REBUILD. MAY AS WELL GO TO THE AUCTION AND BUY ANOTHER CAR.

ANY SUGGESTIONS???

[KHE]

I recall someone saying that a solenoid change will run about $300 or so. Be advised though, most trans shops like Ammoco will tell you the trans is shot and you need a rebuild or a new trans.

Yeah, Devilles are limited to 112. I suspect telling the judge that it was impossible to go 121 because the car will shut down at 112 will be a hard sell. Good luck and let us know how you come out........ in both cases.

THAT WASN'T MY STRATEGY, BUT IF THE CAR ISN'T EVEN CAPABLE OF REACHING THAT SPEED .... MY LAWYER WILL HAVE A FIELD DAY WATCHING THE COP TRY TO EXPLAIN HOW HE ESTIMATES I WAS GOING THAT FAST. THAT'S GROUNDS FOR DISMISSAL. I JUST HAVE TO GET SOME SOLID PROOF/PAPERWORK OR FACTUAL DOCUMENTATION STATING THAT THE CAR IS INCAPABLE OF REACHING THAT SPEED.

AS FOR THE "NEW" TRANNY .... OUT OF THE QUESTION. I'M LOOKING FOR A BASIC CLEAN, REFILL AND SOLENOID REPLACEMENT. ANYTHING UNDER $1000 SOUNDS GOOD TO ME. $1500 FOR THE CAR, $1000 IN REPAIRS .... $2500 IS STILL A GOOD DEAL FOR A CAR IN THIS GOOD OF SHAPE. YOU COULD EAT OFF OF IT, CLEAN INSIDE AND NOT A FLAW ON THE PAINT, NEW TIRES ETC. I GUESS THEY JUST DIDN'T BELIEVE IN PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE - LOL!!!

If your car is the base Deville, it came from the factory with S-rated tires with are rated for a maximum speed of 112 MPH. This information is on the "Service Parts Information" label in the trunk. You may get out of the ticket for 121.9 MPH but the judge may find you guilty of 112 MPH - it should reduce the fine though.

[Cadillac Jim]

Starting in 2nd gear will not hurt the transmission. The P0630 code simply means that the codes were cleared by disconnecting the battery or from an inexpensive code reader, and it will go away eventually. You can avoid the P0630 by clearing the codes from the console HVAC buttons instead of by disconnecting the battery but I wouldn't worry about the P0630 code.

There is absolutely no way to be authoritative about how much it will cost to fix your transmission from online posts. Indications and experiences of others tell us that the most likely culprit is solenoids. But, since you haven't owned the car very long, nobody knows whether or not its history includes, say, towing an Airstream up Pike's Peak recently, use as a taxicab in Hong Kong, or even a used transmission from a junkyard, or what its maintenance history is.

At this point, I would think that the thing to do is to have the transmission serviced and the solenoids checked at the connectors. If the solenoids are bad, hold the car for a day or two while they come in, install the new solenoids in the serviced transmission, reset the codes, and you may, hopefully have it fixed. But nobody can tell from posts on a bulletin board without looking at the transmission.

I've never had a transmission problem because I service my transmission regularly and I have only 120,000 miles on my car. Others with more direct experience, particularly in Do It Yourself (DIY) work will have more insight.

[DJRATEDR]

SOUNDS GOOD, BUT I CAN'T WORK ON MY OWN CAR AT THE PRESENT TIME (BACK INJURY). BESIDES THAT, I HAVE NO PLACE TO WORK ON IT AT. I'M LOOKING AT JUST TAKING THE CAR TO A TRANNY SHOP & EXPLAINING THE SYMPTOMS TO THEM. HOPEFULLY THEY'LL BE HONES AND JUST FIX WHAT'S WRONG AND NOT TRY TO RAPE ME!!! I WAS GETTING THE P-0741 CODE FOR A WHILE. WOULD THAT DISABLE "ALL" TRANNY FUNCTION (R,D,3,2)??? I HAVE NOTHING WHATSOEVER!!!

IF IT WERE JUST THE SOLENOIDS, IT WOULD JUST BE A SHIFT PROBLEM FROM GEAR TO GEAR AND MAYBE A LOSS OF SOME, NOT ALL - RIGHT???

[BodybyFisher]

Do a search under shift solenoids but typically, when the shift solenoids go out, the tranny goes into limp/safe mode, and you only have 2nd gear.

You mention this code above, P0360 - Ignition Coil J Primary/Secondary Circuit Malfunction

Could you check for codes again and write them down. Thanks

[DJRATEDR]

THE CODE I READ WAS P0630 (NOT QUITE SURE EXACTLY, BUT I THINK SO). CAR IS IN THE SHOP NOW .... TRANNY IS DEFINITELY SHOT. THEY HAPPENED TO HAVE A TRANNY THERE WITH ONLY 67,000 AND THE TOTAL COST $1495.

SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD DEAL TO ME, JUDGING FROM THE ESTIMATES AND QUOTES I'VE READ ON THESE POSTS.

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP. I'M SURE I'LL BE BACK ON SOON WITH MORE QUESTIONS .... IT'S A CADDY - LOL!!!

REGGIE