The Fred Posted October 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Fred, Send me a PM with your email address and I will send you the pictures of the intake manifold and the phenolic plates out of my manual. They are too big for me to post here. Yes, I ment I bought mine for $35. Helms has them on sale for $52.00 right now. Will do, Thank you very much.. If you also have a description of the injector cutoff procedure that'd be great MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Thank you Mr. Paul I suppose #2 is what I need to get to.. And it has the little mouseholes in it and all??? MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Yes, #2 is what you pull out and clean. Here is a post by the guru bbobynski regarding the phenolic plates: There is no nead to clean out the manifold itself or even to take the cover off. Just remove the inner 4 bolts that are recessed into the cover and the entire manifold will lift up. All the gaskets should be reusable. Have some RTV handy so if one of the gaskets is damaged or torn you can patch it locally with a dab of the RTV. The phenolic plates are all that need to be cleaned. Just scrape the carbon out of the recessed passages with different size screwdrivers and such. Nothing fancy. The recessed slots in the head surface are also good to clean out and the mouse holes mentioned that are machined into the cylinder heads are very important to clean out. Those are the small machined notches at each intake port. There is also a hole in the cylinder head at each end that leads towards the rear of the engine that feeds the EGR into the phenolic plates that should be checked. It is usually pretty clean but it should be checked for carbon buildup. Remember that the idea is to get the majority of the carbon out of the grooves in the phenolic spacer plates. It is going to get sooty again pretty soon so you don't need to be squeeky clean...just clean the majority of the crud out and let'er rip. ********************************************************************* I just found this information and learned quite a bit: What is Phenolic? Phenolic is a material used in the Aerospace and Electronic industry for its superior insulation properties. It has even been used by NASA during the space exploration as a heat barrier. Phenolic is made by compressing layers of resin soaked canvas while under heat. When cured, it has a brown grainy appearance which is commonly mistaken as “wood”. We use Phenolic in our carb spacers and adapters to stop the transfer of heat from the engine to the fuel system. Intake manifolds and aluminum carb spacers readily transfer heat through the carburetor heating your fuel which has an adverse effect on performance. Phenolic spacers and adapters stops this transfer, therefor lowering the fuel temperature. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Those things must be under the cover and the black grooved thing I'm going to get into it today and see what I can find Also I notice a P030 (E030) ............................... ISC RPM out of range Current most of the time now And last night when the car was warm it showed good old P042 P042 (E042) ................ Left Oxygen Sensor Signal Lean Most interesting of all P023 (E023) .. Electronic Spark Timing (EST) Signal problem [EGR] is now in as a history code Also when it is idling and I goose it I hear a whoosh sound Like when a human quickly sucks air into itself Just hear it for a split second when I goose the throttle MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 I think the whoosh is probably just the air through the throttle body. Have you cleaned the injectors yet? -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Yea, Had the injector cleaning done about 3 weeks ago I didn't get time to clean the plates yesterday I hope I can today MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Well I got it open today and found the problem once and for all There is a crusty sort of #**# covering the little pinholes in three of the injectors.. I need to get them clean without messing them up. How careful do I need to be? A wire brush is out? Can I soak the crust in something? Also being clogged, Have they been trying to run and destroyed themselves? MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 if you can see the pin holes its not likely they are clogged. There is only one method to clean them, I have posted the method before and you need to have special equipment to do it. Clean the spacers and mouse holes and take it to have the injectors cleaned.. DO NOT try to clean them yourself, you will make them worse Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 I had the on car cleaning done, You're talking about taking them in and having them cleaned with that ultra sonic gadget? I can see the pinholes on most of them and they're real clean except for three or four of them which have a crusty gunk covering the pinholes.. I can't soak them in something? I will have to go to wichita to find anyone who knows how to clean them.. MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 I knew it I knew it I called some shops here and they don't even know what the machine is much less would they have one much less would they know how to operate it if they did have one MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 I dont know what to tell you. If they are that bad, you just need to replace them. When I ruined two by cleaning them with a tooth brush, I just bought two in a junk yard and solved the problem. Try a junk yard. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Called alot of junkyards and they all told me they've sold all the northstars as cores or some of a thing.. I can get them from rockauto for a good price as someone was saying Those crazy phenolic plates don't seem to be on my motor.. Is that picture for a 94? If so I'm missing something. MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Please take a photo of your engine. The info posted is for a 94 and its the spacers. Are you telling me you don't see spacers? Might your engine have been replaced that that is the reason you are having problems? Try to get the engine numbers off your engine and maybe the dealer can verify your engine. You might need to spend $199 http://www.lindertech.com/reconinj.htm Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Read this information its very good: http://www.lindertech.com/docs/efibook2005v2.pdf Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 I think the spacers are there after of an all I got ahold of a size 20 torx It'll let me take the black grooved piece off and probably the spacers are under it(now that I got a better shoplight I can see a green seal under the big black grooved piece I think the spacer is under that) They recondition all of the injectors for a buck 99 heck what a deal are they pretty good I'll read the pdf as soon as I download adobe reader I download at 5M and run a pentium D/ 2gb corsair/10k sata WD drive so it won't take a second Ok maybe it will take awhile 27mb for bare minimum install? WoW Installing now Installed brb Ah, I see - looks like a good read I have alot going on tonight but will read it I would "feel" a presence of a replaced engine.. It hasn't been but that is a good guess with all of the problems I've had MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 The reason I say could you engine have been replaced is because if you dont see the spacers maybe someone forced a 95 in you car and that is the reason why you dont see the spacers.. I am NOT sure if that can even be done. I am following your LEAD... You say no spacers I scratch my head and wonder WHY? You need to do more investigation before making statements like that. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 The reason I say that is because if you dont see the spacers maybe someone forced a 95 in you car and that is the reason why you dont see the spacers.. I am NOT sure if that can even be done. I am following your LEAD... You say no spacers I scratch my head and wonder WHY? You need to do more investigation before i hang myself over here. I'm on my way out to take the black grooved piece off right away this moment right now I will report my findings right away sir No hanging necessary just hang in there It's getting easier to work on the stupid car now that I'm not mad with it Things have been easier on me and calmed me down lately MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Ahhh you caught me hanging myself before I edited it out! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Alright, There are 8 pieces I thought it was all one piece They look like extra large freeway blaster car horns if you've seen those When I take one of them off I can see down into where the injector sprays fuel.. it's got a divider (when I look through the hole these black things go on) They're round and square at the end where it goes into the motor Hopefully I can make someone come over here with a digi cam Well not make them just persuade them MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 See the photo on the previous page, if you look at the gasket you can see how it could be two on each side instead of one.. I have not owned a 94 so I can't comment on it. It appears that you found the spacers, clean them as previously mentioned along with the mouse holes. If you can afford to do the injector cleaning do it... if your injectors look that bad. Maybe when you backfired back at the mall the injectors became fouled with carbon Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Those big black things are the spacers? Or the little green square seals on them? In the diagram the spacer is in two pieces not 8 so that's odd I didn't have the backfire when the car started acting up (that was days later when I went to start it after it had been sitting) MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Fred look at #2 on the diagram on the previous page, that is the spacer.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000 STS MN Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Can anyone scan that part of the service manual for me? Or briefly explain it to me? There are two 10A fuses and when I remove one with the car running nothing happens. Fred, If you're still interested in the FI schematic I can email it to you. I can't post it due to file size restriction. I tried a number of scan settings but could not produce a legible image within the acceptable file size range. You could Zip the file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 I posted the one Paul sent me MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted October 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 I've got round black things.. eight of them Right under the engine cover At the ends of them they have a square green seal Eight of each Kind of look like #1 in the picture.. except the picture shows them as one piece. I have 8 of them.. The spacer is it the thing I can look through and see into the combustion chambers? I can see into the combustion chambers there is a metal divider in each hole down in there. That picture mentions those 4 bolts someone was talking about Are we sure this picture is of a 94 motor? I have the 94 STS here MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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