My Brakes Suck!

[BodybyFisher]

There is great info in this thread, lots of good contribution.

Let me ask a question however, besides your pads wearing uneven, you back pads smoke in hard braking while the front pads don't seem to pick up their load? Please confirm that for me...

I want to say this, I did my front brakes yesterday, I had replaced my bushings, my pads were worn on a angle also. With the risk of being flamed, I am going to say that I think the 1996 Front Braking system is hard pressed to handle the braking load. In 1997, the Front Brakes were re-designed, with bigger rotors and different calipers (someone with a 1997 please confirm this, I recall Jadcock (Jason) and Ranger stating this about 1997). I think the 1996 front brakes are NOT up to the task of maintaining pad alignment through the life of the pads. I think the bushings allow too much rocking movement. That is my opinion, what do you guys with 96's (or bushings in the calipers) think about that thought?

I was under the impression that Sil-Glide was not 100% silicone, but I will check, I have it in my garage. I think you can buy the high temp silcone grease from the caddy parts counter

I will post photos of my angled worn pads later.

[epricedright]

There is great info in this thread, lots of good contribution.

Let me ask a question however, besides your pads wearing uneven, you back pads smoke in hard braking while the front pads don't seem to pick up their load? Please confirm that for me...

I want to say this, I did my front brakes yesterday, I had replaced my bushings, my pads were worn on a angle also. With the risk of being flamed, I am going to say that I think the 1996 Front Braking system is hard pressed to handle the braking load. In 1997, the Front Brakes were re-designed, with bigger rotors and different calipers (someone with a 1997 please confirm this, I recall Jadcock (Jason) and Ranger stating this about 1997). I think the 1996 front brakes are NOT up to the task of maintaining pad alignment through the life of the pads. I think the bushings allow too much rocking movement. That is my opinion, what do you guys with 96's (or bushings in the calipers) think about that thought?

I was under the impression that Sil-Glide was not 100% silicone, but I will check, I have it in my garage. I think you can buy the high temp silcone grease from the caddy parts counter

I will post photos of my angled worn pads later.

My pads seem to be wearing fairly evenly. Definately not angled. Are your backing plates bent/warped like boatboy's? We have the same brake set-up, correct? What grease did you use yesterday? Were your pins free? Did you use silicone grease the last time you changed your pads? If there is play in your bushings, maybe the bore was honed out excessively at one time or another, or the slider pin/metal sleeve is worn. The FSM states: "Do not attempt to polish away any corrosion" from the slider pins and sleeves (mounting bolt/sleeve assembly it calls them). It states, "if any corrosion or damage is found, replace with new parts". I replaced my slider bolts when I had that shudder problem, just to be safe. They were slightly corroded.

I used the sil-glyde - It's supposed to safe for rubber....the most important feature. I didn't know it came in large 4 oz tubes. The Pepboys I went to only had the small packets.

http://www.midwayautosupply.com/detailedpr...iption.asp?1208

[stefank]

I replaced the brake pads front and rear on my '96 @ 63,000 kms (40,000 mls).

They were evenly worn.

The rear were not in real need of replacement, but after 8 years I thought it's no bad idea to excercise the pistons a little bit. They don't move much in rear brakes.

Now at 140,000 kms (87,500 mls) the front and rear pads still have some life left, and seem to bo worn evenly again.

I agree with others that the braking performance is not good enough for that kind of car.

After having driven my wife's Volvo V70 I always feel that the brakes are too weak, but after a while one get used to it.

Stefan

[boatboy]

There is great info in this thread, lots of good contribution.

Let me ask a question however, besides your pads wearing uneven, you back pads smoke in hard braking while the front pads don't seem to pick up their load? Please confirm that for me...

I want to say this, I did my front brakes yesterday, I had replaced my bushings, my pads were worn on a angle also. With the risk of being flamed, I am going to say that I think the 1996 Front Braking system is hard pressed to handle the braking load. In 1997, the Front Brakes were re-designed, with bigger rotors and different calipers (someone with a 1997 please confirm this, I recall Jadcock (Jason) and Ranger stating this about 1997). I think the 1996 front brakes are NOT up to the task of maintaining pad alignment through the life of the pads. I think the bushings allow too much rocking movement. That is my opinion, what do you guys with 96's (or bushings in the calipers) think about that thought?

I was under the impression that Sil-Glide was not 100% silicone, but I will check, I have it in my garage. I think you can buy the high temp silcone grease from the caddy parts counter

I will post photos of my angled worn pads later.

Yes, the back pads will smoke while the fronts don't seem to even be working at all.

I just took a straight edge to the face of the inside front pads. Its amazing how warped the backing plates are.

[BodybyFisher]

Were they OEM pads do you know?

[adallak]

I have had this crazy idea for a while... Installing a tire valve stem on the master cylinder reservoire cap and pressure bleed whole brake system by means of my 12V compressor any time I find necessary. What do you think, gents? What are the cons and pros?

[epricedright]

I have had this crazy idea for a while... Installing a tire valve stem on the master cylinder reservoire cap and pressure bleed whole brake system by means of my 12V compressor any time I find necessary. What do you think, gents? What are the cons and pros?

I would think the air would introduce moisture in your system, which could cause boiling of your fluid and accelerated deterioration/corrosion of your brake lines and components.

[adallak]

I have had this crazy idea for a while... Installing a tire valve stem on the master cylinder reservoire cap and pressure bleed whole brake system by means of my 12V compressor any time I find necessary. What do you think, gents? What are the cons and pros?

I would think the air would introduce moisture in your system, which could cause boiling of your fluid and accelerated deterioration/corrosion of your brake lines and components.

Do you think commercially available pressure bleed systems do not use the same air from the atmosphere? Or they use humidity absorbers? In any case I would not do the job when it is raining or just too humid. I want to buy a new cap ($3.00 at stores) to install a valve on it and replace the modified cap with original one when job is done.

[Ranger]

I have had this crazy idea for a while... Installing a tire valve stem on the master cylinder reservoire cap and pressure bleed whole brake system by means of my 12V compressor any time I find necessary. What do you think, gents? What are the cons and pros?

How about something like this?

http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm

[epricedright]

I have had this crazy idea for a while... Installing a tire valve stem on the master cylinder reservoire cap and pressure bleed whole brake system by means of my 12V compressor any time I find necessary. What do you think, gents? What are the cons and pros?

I would think the air would introduce moisture in your system, which could cause boiling of your fluid and accelerated deterioration/corrosion of your brake lines and components.

Do you think commercially available pressure bleed systems do not use the same air from the atmosphere? Or they use humidity absorbers? In any case I would not do the job when it is raining or just too humid. I want to buy a new cap ($3.00 at stores) to install a valve on it and replace the modified cap with original one when job is done.

Good point. When you mentioned a tire valve, what came to mind was the somewhat moist air that comes out of my air compressor in my garage. I suppose if the air in the tank was cool, it wouldn't have as much moisture. The air from my shop gets pretty hot, but my drier supposedly catches it. Would you take the cap off periodically to refill the MC? Don't those power bleeders keep the fluid full automatically, or ??

[boatboy]

Were they OEM pads do you know?

No, I did a brake job ~ 25K miles ago and replaced the fronts w/ a Non OEM ceramic.

You also said earlier that your pads were worn at an angle. Was is anything like mine?

[zonie77]

Adallak,

That would work. You have to make sure the reservoir stays full.

My power bleeder is a tank that pressurizes and has an outlet near the bottom. It is similar to the homemade unit Ranger linked to but is metal.

[BodybyFisher]

Were they OEM pads do you know?

No, I did a brake job ~ 25K miles ago and replaced the fronts w/ a Non OEM ceramic.

You also said earlier that your pads were worn at an angle. Was is anything like mine?

I think so, here is my outer pad, my inner pad was NOT angled.. hopefully you can see this

[adallak]

Adallak,

That would work. You have to make sure the reservoir stays full.

My power bleeder is a tank that pressurizes and has an outlet near the bottom. It is similar to the homemade unit Ranger linked to but is metal.

Yes, it should work. Besides, the 12V compressor which may be attached to the lighter makes the job faster. My only concern is how many PSI that compressor provides. Using a valve stem instead of a standard air fitting makes the job even faster.

Ranger,

Thanks for the link. I am going to try this valve stem and 12V air compressor setup when I finally replace my brake lines (some look really bad) As I told before, I was never happy with the braking ability of my car and never could fix it.

[KHE]

There is great info in this thread, lots of good contribution.

Let me ask a question however, besides your pads wearing uneven, you back pads smoke in hard braking while the front pads don't seem to pick up their load? Please confirm that for me...

I want to say this, I did my front brakes yesterday, I had replaced my bushings, my pads were worn on a angle also. With the risk of being flamed, I am going to say that I think the 1996 Front Braking system is hard pressed to handle the braking load. In 1997, the Front Brakes were re-designed, with bigger rotors and different calipers (someone with a 1997 please confirm this, I recall Jadcock (Jason) and Ranger stating this about 1997). I think the 1996 front brakes are NOT up to the task of maintaining pad alignment through the life of the pads. I think the bushings allow too much rocking movement. That is my opinion, what do you guys with 96's (or bushings in the calipers) think about that thought?

I was under the impression that Sil-Glide was not 100% silicone, but I will check, I have it in my garage. I think you can buy the high temp silcone grease from the caddy parts counter

I will post photos of my angled worn pads later.

Mike,

I have both a '96 and a '97 - I honestly cannot tell the difference in braking performance between the two - both perform flawlessly.

The '97 has a different caliper mounting scheme with a separate bracket similar to the rears. I don't recall if the rotors are of a different size though,

[BodybyFisher]

Kevin, what do you think causes the pads to wear on an angle? Do you think air in the system could do this on hard braking?

[KHE]

I would suspect that the uneven wear is caused by a caliper that is not free to slide on the mounting pins. That is a guess though as I have never expierenced such wear on brakes.

[boatboy]

Found an interesting link that definitely pertains here.

Read on:

How Not to Bleed Brakes!

[adallak]

Found an interesting link that definitely pertains here.

Read on:

How Not to Bleed Brakes!

There is such a part as master cylinder repair kit http://images.wrenchead.com/smartpages/par...DUS/175-415.jpg . It might be all you need to replace. Whenever I bleeded my brakes I always pushed the pedal all the way or close to that... Looks like it caused sponginess I face now.

[BodybyFisher]

Found an interesting link that definitely pertains here.

Read on:

How Not to Bleed Brakes!

GOOD POST! Interesting story, the learning never stops

[zonie77]

Kevin, what do you think causes the pads to wear on an angle? Do you think air in the system could do this on hard braking?

I'll add my 2cents...It's caliper related. Either a stuck piston that cocks a little or a caliper that isn't sliding freely. Not air in the system.

[KHE]

I don't buy the story that pushing the brake pedal all the way to the floor will cause the master cylinder to fail... If that were true, the shop manual would have a clear warning to that effect. Also, if there is a partial system failure - if a line ruptures, the pedal will go all the way to the floor.

There is a warning about bench bleeding a new master cylinder to only stroke the piston 1" but it doesn't see that amount of travel when installed in the car.

[boatboy]

There is such a part as master cylinder repair kit http://images.wrenchead.com/smartpages/par...DUS/175-415.jpg . It might be all you need to replace. Whenever I bleeded my brakes I always pushed the pedal all the way or close to that... Looks like it caused sponginess I face now.

That would definitely be a more cost effective way to go.... but then you would still need to hone the inside of the master cylinder bore.

For me I'll be ordering a master cylinder from Brasington.

MASTER CYLINDER (18029759) - $194.78

[epricedright]

There is great info in this thread, lots of good contribution.

Let me ask a question however, besides your pads wearing uneven, you back pads smoke in hard braking while the front pads don't seem to pick up their load? Please confirm that for me...

I want to say this, I did my front brakes yesterday, I had replaced my bushings, my pads were worn on a angle also. With the risk of being flamed, I am going to say that I think the 1996 Front Braking system is hard pressed to handle the braking load. In 1997, the Front Brakes were re-designed, with bigger rotors and different calipers (someone with a 1997 please confirm this, I recall Jadcock (Jason) and Ranger stating this about 1997). I think the 1996 front brakes are NOT up to the task of maintaining pad alignment through the life of the pads. I think the bushings allow too much rocking movement. That is my opinion, what do you guys with 96's (or bushings in the calipers) think about that thought?

I was under the impression that Sil-Glide was not 100% silicone, but I will check, I have it in my garage. I think you can buy the high temp silcone grease from the caddy parts counter

I will post photos of my angled worn pads later.

My pads seem to be wearing fairly evenly. Definately not angled. Are your backing plates bent/warped like boatboy's? We have the same brake set-up, correct? What grease did you use yesterday? Were your pins free? Did you use silicone grease the last time you changed your pads? If there is play in your bushings, maybe the bore was honed out excessively at one time or another, or the slider pin/metal sleeve is worn. The FSM states: "Do not attempt to polish away any corrosion" from the slider pins and sleeves (mounting bolt/sleeve assembly it calls them). It states, "if any corrosion or damage is found, replace with new parts". I replaced my slider bolts when I had that shudder problem, just to be safe. They were slightly corroded.

I used the sil-glyde - It's supposed to safe for rubber....the most important feature. I didn't know it came in large 4 oz tubes. The Pepboys I went to only had the small packets.

http://www.midwayautosupply.com/detailedpr...iption.asp?1208

Mike, did you see the above post? I was just curious if you used silicone grease when you did your brakes the last 2 times, and were your pins free? Maybe one pin was hanging up and your caliper was not sliding well (either in the bushing or on a rough slide point) causing your angled pad wear?

[epricedright]

Adallak,

That would work. You have to make sure the reservoir stays full.

My power bleeder is a tank that pressurizes and has an outlet near the bottom. It is similar to the homemade unit Ranger linked to but is metal.

Yes, it should work. Besides, the 12V compressor which may be attached to the lighter makes the job faster. My only concern is how many PSI that compressor provides. Using a valve stem instead of a standard air fitting makes the job even faster.

Ranger,

Thanks for the link. I am going to try this valve stem and 12V air compressor setup when I finally replace my brake lines (some look really bad) As I told before, I was never happy with the braking ability of my car and never could fix it.

adallak, I would think you would need some type of pressure regulator and pressure guage on your 12V air compressor. The sites I was reading referring to power bleeders mentioned the air pressure shouldn't exceed 15-20 psi, or damage could to your system could occur. Don't those little 12V AC's put out more than that? I've used them and pumped up tires to over 35 psi.