1994 STS no start.. had to leave her....

[The Fred]

First, after I stopped for gas it started sort of missing just a little and so I tried to clear it out with a couple WOT procedures Well hell it just got worse and worse on the way to wal-mart.. In the mall parking lot I tried some WOT and it seems like it is missing and dogging out.. something is bogging it down like all he^^.... It never stalled but the idle was rougher when I went to park..

I come out the store and it won't start.. sort of like the other day.

Of course after a few minutes of cranking now and then it is flooded *sigh*

OFF+Warmer doesn't show any codes at all

What should I look for when I go back and try starting it up???

It really seemed like something had it bogged down.. as if it couldn't breathe maybe?

I suspect a clogged cat or af but those would not cause this to happen sudden like and then go away, like last time this happened, would it??? It was bogging down alot worse than last time..

I need some ideas because I'm stranded over here like a dead horse out in the desert

PS: When I get on the foot feed it delays a good two seconds before it will go

Sort of like an old carb automobile that is choking out (I could swear it even backfired)

[BodybyFisher]

Check your fuel pressure regulator

[The Fred]

Where is it on the northstar?

[Cadillac Jim]

The FPR is a throwaway part under the beauty cover. Bring a small hook or crochet needle to get out the filter and small o-ring of the old one so you can put the new one in. You will need a socket wrench to get the beauty cover off and on (1/2" or 13 mm), and needle-nose and a screwdriver to pull off the retaining clip. Also bring some paper towels or a roll of shop rags from Pep Boys. Procedure:

1. Loosen the gas cap to relieve pressure in the fuel tank. This will keep you from getting a gasoline facial when you pull out the old FPR.
2. Remove the "beauty cover" (actually it's a heat shield and soundproofing and very important).
3. Put a shop rag or paper towel under the fuel rail relief valve on the front driver's side and "let the air out of the tire" to bleed the pressure down. It should be just a few drops.
4. Look on the driver's side rear of the fuel rail and you will see the FPR. If you have one in your pocket you will recognize the old one easily.
5. Carefully pull the vacuum hose off the FPR.
6. If you have a metal fuel rail, use the needle-nose to pull the retaining clip out of the slot. Be careful; you will re-use this clip.
7. Pull the FPR straight out. A quarter-shaped plastic filter and a small o-ring will remain. Use your mechanic's hook or your wife's crochet needle to pick these out. This is the hardest part of the job.
8. Place the new FPR in the fuel rail receptacle. Be careful to align the vacuum hose fitting at the same angle as the old one.
9. Press the FPR in and re-insert the retaining clip. Some cars may need one of the two retaining clips that come with the new FPR (NOT the C-clip); I have the steel fuel rail and needed to re-use the existing retainer clip.
10. Put the vacuum hose onto the new FPR.
11. Put the beauty cover back on.
12. Tighten the gas cap.
13. Close the hood and start the car. If it's still flooded, hold the throttle wide open and crank for a few seconds (the PCM will cut off the injectors with WOT and less than 1,000 rpm, just to allow you to clear a flooded engine), then start normally.

A new FPR is about $66 plus tax at a dealer.

With all the tools and the part in hand, it's a five-minute job, leaning over the grille to avoid smudging the fender paint.

[The Fred]

Well I went and got it started but it ran like 3#(@ all the way home.. still no codes, press down on the accelerator and it hardly does anything - it just rumbles a bit

But if you just get on it gentle like you can get up around 40 fairly easily (If you floor it and hold it down, it just rumbles and doesn't do anything then all at once the RsPM fly up all to hell and the car jerks forward)

What a day

It's 103 outside so I think I will wait for a cooler day to fool with it.. thanks for the ideas there folks - is it most likely to be the FPR - what are some other things it might be?

I'm going to buy an FPR, a Fuel Filter and some other junk.

Since it is fine most of the time and has done this twice in fits - is that why it is likely to be the fpr?

Does the FPR commonly need to be replaced at 117k?

Ah, also,

Is regular intake cleaner or seafoam as good as TEC?

I seem to remember something about TEC being like seafoam but with alot more different cleaning agents or some of a thing...

[BodybyFisher]

Can you explain what a WOT is in a mall parking lot? Were you in neutral or in drive? The WOT procedure is done on an entrance ramp above 45-50, its possible that your WOT procedures at low speed are winding out the engine too much in a low gear. Just a thought. I would rethink low speed WOT's in 103 degree outside temperature..and review the WOT procedures

FPR's can go bad at any mileage, if yours has a vacuum hose on it, pull the vacuum hose off and check for fuel present. However, i think the 94 has a FPR that is under the intake, someone confirm this, its NOT visible. Check the SEARCH ARCHIVES on the 94, its in the plenum and does not need a vacuum hose if I recall...

DO NOT use seafoam, see this link:

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...&hl=seafoam

[The Fred]

Good to know about the sea foam

The stuff must just be too good

I mis-stated that about the WOT procedure.. It won't allow one.... I just meant that I tried to clear it out with WOT (before it got really choked)

[Ranger]

Your symptoms sound a lot like a faulty TPS.

[BodybyFisher]

Your symptoms sound a lot like a faulty TPS.

Ranger, Fred said no codes however, wouldn't a bad TPS set a code? What kind of problems does a clogged/dirty phenolic spacer cause?

[Bruce Nunnally]

I agree that a backfire is usually a sign of a fuel pressure problem, most often due to a bad Fuel pressure regulator.

This is the new car off ebay, and it has run well sometimes? Could it have had water or bad gas in the tank, and when you filled it up that chugged some through? Seems like it would run better as you put more tanks through it though.

[KevinW]

Check the fuel pressure; it is possible the fuel pump is failing.

[zonie77]

I would add a fuel filter that's almost totally clogged will give similar symptoms except for the no start.

It would seem fuel related so start there. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge?

[Ranger]

Your symptoms sound a lot like a faulty TPS.

Ranger, Fred said no codes however, wouldn't a bad TPS set a code? What kind of problems does a clogged/dirty phenolic spacer cause?

Mike,

Yes, I think a TPS would set a DTC. I mention it because I recall the Guru once saying that a faulty TPS would act like a bad acellerator pump on a carburator. Not exactly sure what symptoms clogged phenolic spacers would cause.

[BodybyFisher]

I still think that he may have a bad FPR, who knows where it is on a 94, its NOT visible is it? Isn't it under the intake?

[Ranger]

Yeah, the '93 & '94 has the FPR inside the intake. You have to remove the intake cover to access it. It is subjected to manifold vacuum, thus there is no vacuum line on the nipple.

[The Fred]

I plan on replacing the FPR and the FF... how difficult is it to get to the FPR under the intake cover?? I got the car from a local seller here..

The first time it did this several people told me it might be bad gas so I added some fresh and it wouldn't start but after I shook the back of the car to mix it up it did start... so what I did was I drove it down as close to empty as I could to get rid of all of that gasoline.

Then yesterday I went in nearly empty and put seven gallons of gas in- it was acting real real fine until I put that gas in.

Now my question is, did I get some air in there or some thing like that by running it down so low or is the gas they're selling me bad? You know, if I go to them and ask they will say hey no one else had a problem... and I don't keep my receipts ... oops and *sigh*

(I didn't drive the car much with a low fuel level in the heat- I know better of that)

You folks are great and priceless to be helping me with this and I appreciate it alot.

[The Fred]

As an aside,

Once I get everything right and fine on this one I'm selling it.

I should have bought DVDs.. for $4000 I could have had 4000 DVDs and then I could have sold those for $8000 and THEN went car shopping.

So if any of you might be interested let me know. After the a/c is fixed and it is running fine I will only want what ever I have in it. Something under five and it's a lot more sexy than that amt.

[The Fred]

Well it is 104 out so I decided not to do it today.. but I did put the air filter on (old one looked fine) and I cleaned out the intake (it was dirty) with some gumout intake cleaner... and it got better right away (stopped shaking)

I also put some of that water eater stuff in there, I think it has alcohol in it, that is in case the bad gas was watery.. well I put it in and shook the hell out of the back end of the car to mix it in there.

Does anyone know what size torx I need to buy for the beauty cover? It looks like I need to take off eight torx bolts to get it off of there.

Thanks again you folks are much appreciated there by me

[Ranger]

I would not worry about air in the fuel system. Very unlikely. Even if there was, it would purge itself back to the tank via the return line.

[Vince P]

If it is 1994 it is under the Intake Manifold COVER.

I did mine about 8 months ago. Not too bad of a job if you know what you ar doing.

There are a few thing that you should be aware of.

I wrote a primer on how to do it on a 1994 North Star.

Check the archives or send me an email.

Vince P

[The Fred]

This evening the stupid thing started fine and it is idling smoothly at 1000 / 700 under load in drive... but it's putting, slowly and loudly

*sigh*

[epricedright]

This evening the stupid thing started fine and it is idling smoothly at 1000 / 700 under load in drive... but it's putting, slowly and loudly

*sigh*

Did you think the N* Ferry came and fixed it?

[The Fred]

This evening the stupid thing started fine and it is idling smoothly at 1000 / 700 under load in drive... but it's putting, slowly and loudly

*sigh*

Did you think the N* Ferry came and fixed it?

No sir

I went out and put the fuel filter on and it's still doing that same thing I mentioned above

Guess I will have to get ahold of a torx wrench to take off the beauty cover and get in there and find the fpr

[Cadillac Jim]

Be careful with the torx bolts. My 1997 has four cap nuts holding on the beauty cover. The torx bolts may be an aftermarket replacement. The studs double as intake manifold bolts. If you loosen them in the heads, you will have to torque them when you put them back.

[Ranger]

Jim,

Freds profils says '90 Seville , but I think it is a '94. If so, the '93 & '94 Northstars are different from yours in that the cover on them is funcional. It is the top cover of the manifold. Removing it opens up the manifold where the injectors, fuel rail & FPR are located. '95 & later, the cover is just for asthetics & noise reduction.