2000 Deville

[Poobah]

I have a line on a 2000 Deville as a replacement for my 1994 Eldorado (see Cracked Block? thread). The Deville is a straight, clean base model with no visible flaws. It has 78,500 miles on it (about average for that year according to Kelly Blue Book). If it passes close scrutiny, a test drive, and if I can get it for my price, I may just go for it.

Does Cadillac recommend regular fuel for this car or do the 2000's still require premium?

Any thoughts, cautions, or other comments about this particular year and model of Cadillac would be appreciated.

Thanks,

[The Fred]

I think that 2000+ cads run on regular if you want them too

I think

[Bruce Nunnally]

There were a ton of changes for the Northstar engine in 2000, so that seems like a good year to buy. Depends on the deal, but also watch to see what 03/04/05 Devilles are selling for. In the paper here I see a 2003 Deville with 15k miles for $15K for example.

[GreenMachine]

lots of 2003's on the dealers lots that have a certified warranty.

[Poobah]

Some other specific questions have come to mind:

Do the later model Northstars tend to have head gasket issues or has the orange coolant and/or the improvements mentioned by Bruce successfully addressed the head gasket problem?

Do the 2000 base model Devilles have electronic struts/shocks? It seems to me that some of the later non-ETC Eldorados have passive (and cheaper to replace) struts/shocks. (This car does have traction control.)

[JimD]

Some other specific questions have come to mind:

Do the later model Northstars tend to have head gasket issues or has the orange coolant and/or the improvements mentioned by Bruce successfully addressed the head gasket problem?

Do the 2000 base model Devilles have electronic struts/shocks? It seems to me that some of the later non-ETC Eldorados have passive (and cheaper to replace) struts/shocks. (This car does have traction control.)

Later model Northstars (depending on year) have not reached the 5 year / 150,000 mile threshold for cooling system maintenance. Cooling system neglect is the leading cause of "head gasket problems". One of the changes in the 2000 engine is a different pitch on the head bolts.

Active struts are part of the package on some models and optional on others. You will have to look at the RPO codes on the spare tire cover, OR check for the presence of the damper valve at the bottom inboard surface of the front strut (you can see with the wheels turned to full lock).

[The Fred]

This is an interesting discussion,

I am after a 2000 Deville or Seville in the next three to six months.

Would anyone care to elaborate on the head bolt pitch.. change....

Am I wrong to sort of worry a little bit about buying the first year of a new this or new that?

[JimD]

This is an interesting discussion,

I am after a 2000 Deville or Seville in the next three to six months.

Would anyone care to elaborate on the head bolt pitch.. change....

Am I wrong to sort of worry a little bit about buying the first year of a new this or new that?

Fom my '98 Service Manual, the 10 major bolt holes for head clamping to the block are threaded M11 X 1.5. When installing Time-Serts, the bolt hole should be 70mm deep.

From my '04 Service Manual, the same 10 bolt holes are threaded M11 X 2.0. For Time-Serts, the bolt hole should be 73mm deep.

That is as specific as the Engine Mechanical Specifications pages get to be. The book does not specify the length of the bolts; only the hole depth for repair.

[The Fred]

I see I see

[JimD]

Found a little more data about the bolts:

M11 X 1.5 bolts have a thread length of about 48mm.

M11 X 2.0 bolts have a thread length of about 67mm.

That is a 39.5% increase in thread engagement!!

[JasonA]

That's an interesting piece of information. Can someone with a 2000 FSM confirm that those changes were in place for the 2000 model year?

[Bruce Nunnally]

The Time-Sert page shows different kits for the 1993-1999 Northstars vs the 2000+ Northstar. The kit page http://www.timesert.com/html/NORTHSTAR2000_headbolt.pdf suggests that there are two different lengths / depths of head bolts used on the 2000 engine:

The NorthStar 2000 has 2 depths of holes, shallow on the upper bank and deeper holes on the lower bank.

Please check for the latest torque specifications before assembling the engine. Improper torque of the head can lead to thread failure.

[GreenMachine]

considering most of us believe head gaskets fail from improper service of the coolant system I think the above shows that cadillac added extra insurance to the package.

[JasonA]

Interesting. That's all new information to me!

[KHE]

The coarser 2.0 mm threads are also stronger than the 1.5mm counterparts as there is more material on each thread which reduces the chance of a thread failing.

[Poobah]

Some additional information and another question:

I took the VIN to my local dealer and asked for the price on the struts/shocks. Apparently, that base model Deville has a passive system. The front struts are $205 each and the rear shocks are $185 each, or about $800 all the way around. That is way better than $800 each for my Eldo (that's $3200 for all four).

The dealer's parts man also gave me a print out of their service record for the car. One thing that seems odd to me is that one of the crankshaft position sensors has been replaced at least 4 times and the other one at least once (in 78500 miles) Does anyone know what's up with that?

[JasonA]

Crank sensors were problematic in that era.

I'm really starting to like the 2000+ DeVilles. With the engine changes, especially the stronger head bolts and regular fuel, and the rather inexpensive passive struts/shocks, those cars are probably a bargain...especially now that a lot of folks are probably getting letters from their dealer to come in and check out the '06 DTS.

[Poobah]

Crank sensors were problematic in that era.

Does anyone know what those sensors cost? It shouldn't be a big job to replace them if the car is up on a hoist. They're right behind the radiator.

[Nikolai]

I just did struts on mine. Did it myself for $130 total for the front struts. Not hard at all if you have access to a strut compressor. I used Monroe Senatracs, the most performance oriented ones I could find unfortunately without going 100% custom. I still love my Deville, minus the weak stock stereo.