terrylange Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 '97 DeVille with 173K. Over the last couple of weeks, I have had problems starting the car after it has been sitting for more than 8 to 10 hours. Turns over fine, but seems like it is trying to "catch", but takes several attempts before it fires. Had this same problem about 20K ago, and (thanks to advice from this message board) corrected it by cleaning and tightening all the battery connections. Last time, the problem seemed to be related to low battery voltage and/or poor battery connections. This time, it turns over fast, but seems like it is "flooded". Once it does start, there is the smell of raw fuel inside the car. I removed the battery and cleaned all the terminals and ground connections, but no improvement. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have tentatively sold the car, but won't turn it over to the new owner until this problem is rectified. I did replace the fuel pressure regulator a couple of years ago, and also had the fuel rail recall looked after last year. Thanks for any input any one of you may have! Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Leaking fuel pressure regulator FPR may be the culprit. When you turn ignition ON (the engine is OFF) and pull the vacuum hose from the FPR there should be no fuel coming from the FPR nipple. If you see fuel FPR should be replaced. Check this out for the picture of FPR: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...ssure+regulator The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrylange Posted September 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 I checked the FPR this morning, and there is no fuel around the nipple. I replaced the FPR about 50K ago, and I recall the problem at that time was that it was difficult to restart after the car had been driven. This time around the problem is getting the car started when it is cold. I forgot to mention, that it also backfires when I am trying to start it. Any other possibilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 backfire is another FPR symptom. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 It shoulds to me like you may be having a leaky injector. You have a 97, the fuel rail is not too difficult to remove, if its like my 96. What I would do is lift the fuel rail up and hold it up while someone turns the key run (DON'T START IT KEY TO RUN ONLY). The fuel system will pressurize and if you are getting a leaky injector you should see fuel leaking out of one or more of them.. I would check the FPR again however, if you don't have a leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Get a hand held vacuum pump, attach it to the FPR, pump it down and see if it will hold vacuum (engine off) as a further check of the FPR. They won't always leak fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrylange Posted September 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Thanks for the advice, guys! I put the vacuum pump on the FPR and the pressure stayed constant. I also unbolted the fuel rails and pried them up a little bit, and with the fuel system pressurized, couldn't see anything leaking. Not that I would know where a fuel injector would leak from. I didn't want to pull them completely out of the orfices, since it was already starting to get dark out, and I was working with a flashlight already. Would a leaking injector be very obvious with it just pulled out of the port half an inch, or should I have pulled them completely out for a look? Another project for next weekend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Thanks for the advice, guys! I put the vacuum pump on the FPR and the pressure stayed constant. I also unbolted the fuel rails and pried them up a little bit, and with the fuel system pressurized, couldn't see anything leaking. Not that I would know where a fuel injector would leak from. I didn't want to pull them completely out of the orfices, since it was already starting to get dark out, and I was working with a flashlight already. Would a leaking injector be very obvious with it just pulled out of the port half an inch, or should I have pulled them completely out for a look? Another project for next weekend! I think if you could see the end of the nipple, you should have seen it dripping if it was leaking... With that kind of mileage when did you replace the plugs? How are the ignition wires? Look at them close for breakdown of the insulation where there are burn marks at every place they touch metal. Start your engine in the pitch dark, lift the hood and look for arching around the coils. If you can do that with the cover off do so. What bothers me however about your symptom is the fuel smell.. Was your fuel rail replaced under recall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrylange Posted September 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 I replaced the plugs with A/C Delco within the last 25K, but never got around to ordering the $100.00 plug wires. The ones that are on there seem fine, and the car runs great (once it starts!) The fuel rails were replaced under the recall a year ago. This problem cropped up fairly suddenly. Regarding the fuel smell, I checked for residue from leaking fuel this afternoon when I was messing with the fuel rails, and couldn't see anything obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 I would put on new AC Delco wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Look at your engine in the pitch dark with the cover off for arching. If those are the original wires, they owe you nothing. I am not sure if it was the case with your wires but recently they have been saying not to utilize silicone grease on the ignition wire boots, see below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonjaab Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 TERRY......Where do you live? Snow, ice and salt land ?????????????? Hard start, stalling, fuel smell ????????????? If so.....My 02 is a rotted gas line.............Usually hidden in the frame rail... Easy to check, will post how if your in snow land !............geo 93 DeVille-13 Chevy Impala 72 GTO - 77 Triumph Bonneville 84 Z-28 Syracuse NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrylange Posted October 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Thanks to all of you who offered suggestions on the possible cause. Scotty and Ranger hit the nail on the head. I ordered new AC/Delco plug wires from gmpartsdirect.com and installed them in less than an hour this past weekend. The starting problem has disappeared 90%, and that is good enough for me. (Still stumbles a little bit, but fires within 4 seconds.) More power on acceleration and smoother idling as well. Hoping the MPG will also increase, will find that out on a trip to AZ this weekend. Sonjaab, this car fortunately is not from "snow, ice and salt land." It has been a So. Cal car all its life. I spent 38 years in Manitoba, Canada, so I know the damage salt can do to a car. I have been looking on e-bay for 3 months for a 2000 to 2001 DeVille (preferably DTS), but have stayed away from anything in the "rust belt." Amazingly, 80% of these cars on e-bay are from South Florida and Dallas or Houston, which is a little too far to go to pick up a car. Can't believe the odd seller doesn't show up from California so I don't have a 3000 mile drive back here after picking it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Check your plugs now. When I did mine last year I was amazed to find about half of the platinum tips missing, increasing the gap to .060 in some cases. That may take care of the last 10% of your problem. If those plugs are original, they are probably long overdue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrylange Posted October 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Ranger, I replaced the plugs about 20 to 25K ago, so hope they are still okay. The ones I took out at that time didn't look bad, but there must have been some electrode wear as the gap was excessive in most of them. As I mentioned earlier, I have sold the car, so am not looking to to spend any more money at this point to fine tune minor problems on a car with 174K. I have actually been trying to talk the buyer out of buying this car since it has been great to me over the past 3.5 years, and I know what I have put into it, including a lot of routine preventative maintenance, with special care to the cooling system. I know I can end up buying a replacement low mileage 2000 or 2001 that hasn't been maintained, and it could end up being a money pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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