Bruce Nunnally

Duke SS100 Jaguar replica wheel choices

102 posts in this topic

My Duke came with steel wheels and plastic wire-wheel hubcaps unlike all the cool models that came with the custom Ford 15" wire wheels. The Duke's have the Ford 4x4.25" wheel pattern, popularly known as 4x108 (mm), similar to the Mustang II or Pinto from which the front hubs and rear axles come. The Truespoke wheels don't currently offer a 4-bolt pattern. Due to the high 75 aspect ratio on my current tires, the 14" wheels with 205/75-14 tires are taller than the 19" wheels and low aspect tires on the Cadillac.

One Duke factory custom wheels looked like this:

IMG_0656.JPG

One Duke had these:

39jss50.jpg

The actual 39 Jaguar SS100 used 18x3" wheels (like a motorcyle wheel these days)

IMG_0637.JPG

I see these on ebay 15x7 with 4x108 lugs; with a 205/75-15 tire these would be 1" taller than my current wheel/tire which are 205/75-14. Speedo would be 1 mph off at 30.

$_57.JPG

which can be equipped with a finned center spinner like this; total with shipping for 4 ~$900.

$(KGrHqUOKooE4tmopr7oBONuOv(s0w~~0_12.JP

I also was taken with these which are a mix of black powder coat and chrome:

$_57.JPG

From another seller I also see these in 15x7, 4x108:

$_57.JPG

Except they are $550 with free shipping, so less, but don't have the fake knock-off spinner that would look like the original. The lower price does make them more attractive if I end up buying 6.

I don't see any 16" diameter wire wheels with 4x108. I could perhaps go even wider to a 225/75-15 from my 205/75-14 and gain a second inch, but I think the current 205's rub a bit turned close to lock.

What do you think about the three choices above?


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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oh -- two of these require but come with adapters; the last one actually is in 4x108 or 4x100 pattern. So I guess that's the one I want is the less expensive lower one.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Terrific looking wheels that would show well on your car.What also needs to be considered is tires for them ,mounting and balancing as that will dramatically increase the investment .I've had this same discussion with a co-worker who is restoring two Desoto's.He has sent me Ebay links with period correct wires .However ,most need sand blast,powder coat,tubes,tires and adapters.I don't feel that makes them cost effective.He is going to lend me a couple of his wheels to set against the car to see how they might look.Probably next weekend,not sure yet.I'm fully capable of machining my hubs and axles but,think it better to use adapters if this is a path I would take.So many options. Rick


Rick

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Yes tires in 205/75-15 look relatively inexpensive though. Adapters seem iffy to me.

I think there is a pinto path to upgrade to 5lug; the front is an easy swap, but the rear needs either replugged and re-drilled axles on each side or replacement 24 spline axles (auto) of appropriate length. The beauty of that would be more expensive us made wire wheels and slide up to 16" wheels.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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I would try to find something closer to the original size. Modern wheels are not the best option for the design. The handling also benefits from high, thin, tires. Ofcourse I understand the financial reality but.......

I found this online in New Zeeland: http://vintagerims.com/home_Vintage_Rims.html Guess You can get almost anything there?

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Choices, choices. Are you going for the classic look with narrower tires or a statement with wider tires in case you up your engine output? Looks like your options are pretty expensive. Are there any wire wheel cover options that you could use with a larger diameter wheel size? I suppose overall OD is an issue because you will be implementing higher gearing with a bigger OD. My 165-80-15 OD is withing a fraction inch of the original 195's that were on the car. The original Jag silver wheels looked pretty neat but probably would be hard to duplicate.

Here is one replica I saw with Model A wire wheels. Doesn't seem quite proportional to me and the wheel to fender gap is still pretty big. Must have had to replace the hubs or use adapters.

1939-jaguar-ss100-roadster-replica-ameri

Maybe if they had been painted silver, it would look better?

I pulled a page from the Dayton wheel catalog, but I don't know if they make the bolt pattern. My wheels might have been made by Dayton--not sure.

Daytons.jpg

I have the two-ear knock-offs. They mount via a bolt from the back of the wheel through a big fender washer that jam fits in the center opening.

Good luck on your quest.

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The "Fitment guide" link from the Vintage Rims web site is dead. It apparently is supposed to go to the MWS web site fitment page:

http://www.mws.co.uk/custom/FitmentGuide/FindEntry.asp?category=87

They list only British cars there. Vintage Rims make rims to order in NZ and sells worldwide. I would call them and ask.

Offset, diameter, etc. all work together to make the car steer right and such. In particular, if the kingpin axis (strut axis, or steering axis) doesn't pass through the center of the tire patch, the steering wheel will pull to one side and then the other on braking and such. So for a daily driver you need to make sure that the mounted wheel and tire works for the suspension on the car.


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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
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Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Thank you for the comments and replies.

My goals for wheel / tire change are 1) larger diameter 2) appearance (wire preferred, not hubcaps) and 3) ground clearance - if I get another couple inches I can give it back to the headers I have or lower the car an inch again and reduce fender gaps.

My Ford wheels are 4x4.25, which is similar to but not exactly 4x108 fitment; the car is rear wheel drive; 64.3 bore.

I looked at an 18x3" motorcycle type wheel which would closely match the original 1939 appearance. My current wheel/tire are 205/75-14, which gives a 26.11" diameter. Large motorcycle 18" tires are 120/90-18 which are approximately the same diameter I have now. Some motorcycle tires are rated up to 800 lbs, which would be just within range for what the Duke might gross -- 2325 + 2 passengers should stay within 3,000 and under 3,200 lbs.

I do feel the wide tires detract from the 'look', but I like the traction. I am sensitive to how much I give up on acceleration, which is sparse to begin with. I am tempted to go to a 'racing' light wheel, which even in a 16" diameter might be lower weight than my current steel wheels -- but at the expense of not having cool wire wheels.

I have budget for wheels, but it would be great if I only have to buy one set.

ozracing_racing_ultraleggera_crystaltita


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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My duke has a 6.75" ford rear differential and 24 spline axles with 4x4.25 bolt pattern

Classic truespoke or dayton wire wheels want a 5 lug pattern.

The upgrade for the 6.75" rear was the Ford 8" rear which would have 5 lug hubs. Front hubs are easily upgradeable. Rebuilt 8" would cost $800-1200 in rebuilt parts plus install so say $1500-2k. Nice wire wheels are $300-500 a wheel so call this plan $2700-4k range plus tires total $3k-$4500

One set of 15x7 with 4x4.25 wire wheels looks inexpensive but has NO RETURNS pasted everywhere which concerns me in doing business long distance. Chrome-type coating I think means not really chrome. $550 plus tires total $1000 but risky

Having the 6.75 rear axles remachined into 5 lug might cost $800. Plus redo front $150. Plus wire wheels $1200 plus tires total $2600

Interestingly, the Harley Trike uses 4x4.25 rear axle bolt pattern and offers optional wire wheels. The wheels can be as wide as car wheels - 16x7" say. Custom hd wire wheels look like 800 range ea or for two still researching. Unsure of offset or other details but a good sign that custom trike builders look for the 6.75 rear to incorporate in trikes.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Interesting about the trike wheels. Might be something to pursue. I saw these on eBay that aren't a bad look. These would fit either of our cars, but only 4 available. I assume you want 6.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-Wheels-Rims-4x100-4x108-Lancer-Neon-Scion-Aerio-Corolla-Yaris-Golf-Jetta-/171300883527?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Wheels&hash=item27e2540c47&vxp=mtr

Actually, after looking at several SS100 variations, I wish just a little that I did not have the side mounts and just had a rear deck bare spare instead. IMHO, that is the more authentic look. I originally thought the side mounts had that elegant look, and they do get attention. Just not real SS100. Anybody have a set of plain fenders?

It will be interesting to see what you find.

Bob

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The Brits have some>

http://www.europaspares.com/mechanical/wheel-nuts-accessories/bolt-on-wire-wheels-chrome-5-1-2-x-15-4-stud-ford-108mm-inc-nuts-key-spanner.html

Did you find this site? They look similar to some of your examples above, but the price doesn't seem so high. I believe they are in CA>

http://www.ogrimsdirect.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=S16X7

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Wow those Brit wheels are pretty

item_90103412_264250.jpg.jpg

They want $383 a piece for them, plus $300 tax as shown in shopping cart, plus shipping (?$), but if they fit then could be a contender. I sent them a note to inquire (enquire) regarding complete specs.

Older wheels have spline drives and the true knockoff nut with hammer to tighten. I am not sure I am comfortable with this technology -- I like the comfort of needing 4 nuts to come loose before the wheel leaves the hub. If that ends up being the only way to get there I will consider and just keep it tightly tight, but if I can get the bolt-on version then I would prefer that.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Link to 4x4.25 to 5x4.5 adapters: http://www.ezaccessory.com/Wheel_Adapter_4_Lug_4_25_To_5_Lug_4_5_p/4425-5450u.htm?CartID=1

4425-5450U-2.jpg?1352828700

Another technology I am not perfectly fond of, but could be a good way to test fit some wheels to sort out.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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They are very safe! AsYou can see there is a left and a right side version and thereby they tighten themselves.

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Hmm.

here is the adapter type -- the colors differ by side of the car, as Göran points out.

4-100-4.25-4.5-2.jpg

Then OG wire wheel 100 spoke:

S16X7-2.jpg$(KGrHqF,!lsF!fon89IgBQNRWjtO,w~~60_12.J

100 spoke OG wire wheel 16 x 7 or 15 x 7

2bar_dome-2T.jpg

and 2-bar dome spinner

hammer-2.jpg

with lead hammer for knocking off the knockoff -- at 15x7 and $148 for fedex home delivery would ring up to US$668

16x7 would be $4 more each.

I like the 72 spoke designs better than the 100 spoke, but that does make an attractive package from a US company. How do these look to you guys?

The hub adapters have a center bore of 64 mm -- the pinto front hubs on my Duke are 64.3 mm?

IMG_1101.JPG

I am guessing that the 4x4.25 adapters will just fit over the hub? The hub keeps dirt out of the wheel bearings.

I suppose I could order 1 and test fit. Shipping for one wheel is $48; one wheel, one adapter, one spinner, one hammer is $198

with 6 wheels and accessories and delivery total is $981


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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B) Nice! Just miss the Cadillac logo on the spinners....... ;)

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Yes the SS company ( later renamed Jaguar ) used a stylized SS

1939JaguarSS100OTSgreenwheel-vi.jpg


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Morning read: Wire Wheels & Classic Cars


One of the things that distinguished the classic British sports cars from many of their contemporaries was their striking wire wheels. Usually laced with 48, 60 or 72 spokes, these wheels offered a performance boost as well as visual punch.

Back before the advent of today’s “mag-style” wheels, racers chose wire wheels for two reasons: They were lighter than the available disk steel wheels, and the single knock-off nut made for fast tire changes. Non-racers sought them out because they provided an elegant enhancement to any car’s looks.

Of course, these pluses are offset with some inherent minuses. Wire wheels require maintenance, and lots of it. Their “knock-offs,” the big nut that fastens the wheel to the car’s hub, must be kept tight. Spokes need to be tightened periodically. The wheels themselves must be trued to eliminate wobble, known as runout. Wire wheels get dirty and can be hard to clean. Finally, they are more expensive than their steel disk counterparts.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Lincoln stopped making wire wheels when they looked into it and found that it cost more to assemble one of those wire wheels than it did to assemble a Ford.

But I looked at the web site for those beautiful wheels that are sold on eBay and found that they are made in India, and that they make them in my size. I tremble to think of what would happen if the tires hooked up really well in a time-trial launch.


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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Dayton has some 19x2.5 wheels for the MG TC, which appears to have splined hubs.

mg14.jpg

The Duke is running fine -- out to dinner again tonight with compliments along the way.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Dayton sounds like they will make bolt-on wire wheels to order at $539.50 each, or $3.5K all in for 6.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Other Duke wheel images:

bpgwrightlg1.jpg

13764127331411.jpg

and of course Troy's work in progress, with the non-wires on while the wires got new tires, which I think look the best of the non-wires I have seen:

photo%201.JPG


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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If you want to mess around with modifying your hubs to splined hubs, you could assemble a set of British wheels like below because they always seem to be available. Don't know how ambitious you are and if you have a good patient mechanic or machinist. Direct bolt-ons with not much different offset would be the least painful. Bolt pattern adapters add width, which is why that one picture I posted of the Duke with Model A wheels seemed to look odd. You don't want your wheels to be outside of the fender line for proper proportions. Hope I'm not messing your thinking up too much.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Matching-Wire-Spoke-Wheels-15x5-Jaguar-British-Italian-Aston-Martin-/231224873087?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35d613907f&vxp=mtr

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No, I am posting to get more inputs to try to decide; currently I think I am going to wait and see. The Classic Roadster custom 15x7, 4x4.25 wheels are out there somewhere lol.

What I really want is the Dayton 15x7 wire wheels with bolt-on, tubeless 4x4.25 for $3500, but I don't feel good about paying that much for wheels.

I like the bbs mesh wheels as a compromise, and I may try the aftermarket wire imports on ebay for $550 (post 1 lol).

In general the wheels matter a lot more to me than to other people who see the car.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Forgot to add my bit on tires. I went to narrow 165-80x15 VW Beetle tires because Wal Mart had them readily available for only $59 each, and they actually turned out to be an inch less in OD, so I lost 1/2" clearance and increased the fender gap a bit, but it's not noticeable. I have now discovered Coker Tire who has classic auto tires. The 185-80x15 Vredestein tire is the same OD as the original Duke 195-75x15 whitewalls that I had. You can also get original 6.70 x 15 tires if you can deal with bias ply tires instead of radials. Those would really be skinny and tall for a 15 incher.

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