Rod Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 I have gotten the error code P0717. I have removed the troublesome Input Speed Sensor and am ordering a replacement. My question is about the round plug on the wiring harness on the outside of the trans. It has trans fluid in it. When I let both male and female plugs hang they drain trans fluid for some time. I'm really baffled! Is this common? Has anyone heard of this before? I don't think this would effect the ability of the plug to work correctly as there are other plugs inside the trans that are submerged in fluid and they function normally. I would just like to get some input from others before paying for a new wiring harness when it isn't a problem. Thanks all Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 I did my ISS speed sensor also and I also had the fluid in the connector. Ill link you to my thread. Fluid leaks out of the harness and down into the plug. In retrospect, I wish I replaced my wiring harness. Its not too difficult, you will need to snake it through to the bottom pan. Good luck with this job, when I did mine I also replaced the TCC and Pressure solenoids Here is my thread, I hope its helpful, Mike http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13481 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 Here is a photo of the wiring harness and directions Remove the two 8-mm bolts (15) from the automatic transmission input(shaft) speed (A/T ISS) sensor and the retainer. Disconnect the A/T ISS (14) and the harness. Remove the pass through connector and the automatic transmission wiring harness assembly (12) from the case. Remove by pushing the three tabs inward from the outside of the case. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted March 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 I was hoping not to have to change out the harness, its $150.00 I better not be cheap, I know I'll pay for it later. List of what I'm going to change so far Transaxle input speed sensor (this is my initial problem) Gaskets, sprocket support to case cover, case to case cover, side cover to case cover, secondary pump body to spacer plate, oil pan Filters, transaxle oil filter, left and right scavenge screens, Main wiring harness You also mentioned the TCC and Pressure Solenoids, are there any other items that require the trans to be dropped to replace that tend to fail? Thanks again. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 I think that covers everthing. There is one more thing. There are two drive sprocket thrust bearings about the size of the opening at the top of a coffee cup (I am having coffee right now)... Be careful to note which way that thrust bearings are facing and put it back the same way. I made a mistake not paying attention when it came out and it has a audible whine now. I think that once the bearings are running in one direction to reinstall them in the opposite direction is an error. Here is a photo of the thrust bearings Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 I'm a firm believer in marking things with a Sharpie or tape if there is a chance they can be put back in wrong. It's a minor extra step that can prevent major problems if you are forgetful like I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 I'm a firm believer in marking things with a Sharpie or tape if there is a chance they can be put back in wrong. It's a minor extra step that can prevent major problems if you are forgetful like I am. Thanks for the kick in the teeth, If you read my profile, I said I mark parts, take photos, I was trained by a machinist. I made a mistake with this, and compounded it by not buying new thrust bearings as they looked overheated but the job was taking too long and I needed to get it together. This was an abvanced job that not everyone can tackle When my neighbors saw this they said, I would NEVER get drive my car again Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted March 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 I see your frame didn't drop down quite far enough either. I had to push it down to get to the bottom bolts. Now you mentioned the thrust bearings I need to go look for them. I fear I'll go into the garage and find them lying in the floor. I do remember hearing something drop but not finding it. I'll go check right now! Just as I had feared, one thrust bearing had dropped into a drain bucket, into the muck at the bottom!! At least I found it. I did notice that when I fitted it into the case it was very smooth when installed one way but had a very slight bit of drag when put in the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 I'm a firm believer in marking things with a Sharpie or tape if there is a chance they can be put back in wrong. It's a minor extra step that can prevent major problems if you are forgetful like I am. Thanks for the kick in the teeth, If you read my profile, I said I mark parts, take photos, I was trained by a machinist. I made a mistake with this, and compounded it by not buying new thrust bearings as they looked overheated but the job was taking too long and I needed to get it together. This was an abvanced job that not everyone can tackle When my neighbors saw this they said, I would NEVER get drive my car again That was TOTALLY NOT a shot against you. I'm sorry. I wasn't thinking of your mistake when I wrote that, I was making a suggestion to Rod to help keep him from messing anything up. EVERYONE makes mistakes. It's part of what makes us human. Why do you think I started marking things? I've made mistakes.... And major credit to you where it's due. I would NEVER tackle a transmission job myself. I know I would screw something up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 I see your frame didn't drop down quite far enough either. I had to push it down to get to the bottom bolts. Now you mentioned the thrust bearings I need to go look for them. I fear I'll go into the garage and find them lying in the floor. I do remember hearing something drop but not finding it. I'll go check right now! Just as I had feared, one thrust bearing had dropped into a drain bucket, into the muck at the bottom!! At least I found it. I did notice that when I fitted it into the case it was very smooth when installed one way but had a very slight bit of drag when put in the other way. Now you just reminded me. That is what happened to mine, they fell out, and I didnt know which way they went back in. Now according to the manual, there is not specified direction, but its NOT smart to put them in, in a different direction than they were running all along, that is what I think I did. I only dropped my carriage just enough to get the side pan off If you can, now that you dropped yours also, you should try to buy two new thrust bearings and install them. Let me know how this works out for you Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 I'm a firm believer in marking things with a Sharpie or tape if there is a chance they can be put back in wrong. It's a minor extra step that can prevent major problems if you are forgetful like I am. Thanks for the kick in the teeth, If you read my profile, I said I mark parts, take photos, I was trained by a machinist. I made a mistake with this, and compounded it by not buying new thrust bearings as they looked overheated but the job was taking too long and I needed to get it together. This was an abvanced job that not everyone can tackle When my neighbors saw this they said, I would NEVER get drive my car again That was TOTALLY NOT a shot against you. I'm sorry. I wasn't thinking of your mistake when I wrote that, I was making a suggestion to Rod to help keep him from messing anything up. EVERYONE makes mistakes. It's part of what makes us human. Why do you think I started marking things? I've made mistakes.... And major credit to you where it's due. I would NEVER tackle a transmission job myself. I know I would screw something up. I didnt think it was that is why I put the > I just remembered that mine actually fell out also.... the problem is putting it back it, in the reverse direction that is was previously running, I should have purchased new ones when that happened. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 I finally got my transmission back together! Woo hoo!!!!! It runs great! No transmission error codes. I do have 2 issues that I have to deal with an oil leak and an A/C error. There is a oil leak on the front of the engine. Its impossible to see where it is coming from and my A/C is acting up. It only runs for about 1 second, off 5 second, then repeats. It keeps short cycling like this. After a bit a error code comes up "Low Refrigerant, A/C Shut Down". Does anyone know if low refrigerant will cause short cycling? It took 7 weeks to find the Drive Thrust Bearing. I got all the other parts in 2 weeks. I was a bit concerned about getting it back together after 7 weeks. I only have one left over part, a bolt.....it actually fell out of the engine bay when I started taking it apart. Never did find where it may have come from. Here is a list of parts I replaced. wiring harness Input Speed Sensor TCC Lock-up solenoid Force motor solenoid Temp sensor Channel Plate to Drive Sprocket Bearing Channel Plate to Driven Sprocket Bearing Main Oil Filter L & R Scavenger filters Channel Plate gaskets Side pan gasket Bottom pan gasket 12 quarts of tranny fluid!!! Thanks all for your moral support, it really helped!!! Rod Shoreline, WA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Great job! Good for you. This deserves Honorable Mention in our Hall of Fame! Those sprocket bearings are the thrust bearings, I spoke about?, where did you get your parts? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 That bolt that dropped out could have been dropped years ago, and just sitting wedged in someplace. Where is the oil leak coming from?, Check your cooler lines Check codes for your AC problem? Does it actually have a low freon charge? If not its possible you need a new low pressure sensor. My engine acted up, with low oil pressure when I left it for a month with no oil and not running, try a high mileage oil, it has conditioners for seals and will swell them up, but look at cooler lines, look at the oil filter adapter, the oil pressure switch, etc Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Congrats to you on a job well done! I hope I never have to do a job like this. I can only imagine what a nightmare it must be. I'm sure I might someday though as long as I want to keep my car on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 The short cycling of the compressor is indicative of a low refrigerant charge. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Well I found my oil leak. The power steering reservoir is cracked at the return line. At least its on top for a change! I checked codes and ... "NO CODES"... was displayed. The A/C is indicating only on the dash indicator so I don't think its low enough to cause a problem aside from not cooling. And maybe my code checker is not capable of seeing the A/C codes. It's a cheap unit, however it did show the dreaded P0717. One additional note. To access the trans I removed the drivers side strut completely. Before removing it I marked the tower where the bolts were. When I replaced I used the marks to align it. My steering is rock solid and it runs straight and true. I was afraid I wouldn't get it back close enough but it seems fine. I have to admit that this car is one of the easiest I have worked on in quite a while. There is a lot to it but it is easy to work on. Rod p.s. you think this might be why the defroster was noisy and vibrated a lot!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Well...lets see now.... (after thinking about it for a while)...Yep...I do believe that could have caused a problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Well I got my leaking steering pump fixed. Good old JB Weld. I put almost a full charge into the A/C system. It is running fine now. I am going to keep track how long it lasts. Anyone ever use the "Stop Leak" stuff for the A/C system? Sounds kinda scary to use to me but if it works then maybe.... All I need now are tires. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Personally, I have never used the AC stop leak. I have heard some "NOT TOO GOOD" things about it. I don't think I would use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Don't use A/C stop leak - it will not work. Just fix the leak, evacuate and recharge with plain R-134a. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 I kinda figured the stop leak wasn't a good idea. Just looking for a short cut. It runs fine. I'm giving the keys back to my wife. She has been driving a 96 Lincoln Mark VIII. In comparison its a piece of crap, and it only has 50,000 miles on it! Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2010 Thought I'd include cost for parts to replace the input speed sensor plus any other parts that could easily be replaced at the same time. This sure beats the $1,400 estimate from the shop!!! And it still runs great! PARTS ORDERED FROM ROCKAUTO PARTS Part Description $7.96 Gasket, sid cover to case cover $50.79 Gasket, cse to case cover $28.79 Scavenger screen, L&R, seals, Gasket-Oil Pan $28.79 Filter, Transaxle oil $35.79 SOLENOID TCC PRESSURE $83.79 Pressure Control Solenoid $27.79 Torque Converter Temp Sensor $14.08 Vehicle Speed Sensor $108.79 Wiring Harness $5.39 Gasket, Driven sprocket support $10.05 Front Left Torque Strut Mount $9.43 Bearing, Driven sprocket $61.93 tax & shipping $473.37 TOTAL COSTS PARTS ORDERED FROM CT POWERTRAIN PRODUCTS $30.00 Input Speed Sensor $5.15 tax & shipping $35.15 TOTAL COSTS PARTS ORDERED FROM CADILLAC $9.58 Bearing $6.07 Supplement $0.91 tax & shipping $16.56 TOTAL COSTS $525.08 TOTAL PROJECT COST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 27, 2010 Report Share Posted June 27, 2010 See what is nice about this is, that, Cadillac wanted to charge me $1700 to do this job. That would have been the ISS speed sensor by itself. I did almost the same thing but did not replace the harness and thrust bearings. You could not afford to have Cadillac do the job you just did. Doing the job yourself permits you to spend less, while doing so much more. Bravo to you great job, glad we could help you.. Nice garage, that is a big benefit Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted July 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 One last note to inform all of how my caddy runs. I am now in El Paso, TX. Getting here I went through 110deg heat with the A/C on. It is getting 25 mpg! Hasn't used a drop of tranny fluid. One additional note. At the beginning of the trip going from Seattle to Corte Madera, CA it used a full quart of oil. On the next leg of the trip I floored it (wot) a couple times up to 90mph from a 15mph on ramp. Since I did that it hasn't used any oil. I heard this works but I was and still am a bit of a non-believer even though it seems to have worked for me. Anyway, I love the car. Best car I've had. I'm glad I did the work to it. There is more left to do. Thanks all for your input. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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