95 Eldog Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Hi Everyone, I'm new to this forum, so feel free to say hello. I bought a 1995 Eldorado ETC in March of '05 with 69K. This is my 3rd Caddy. I've owned a 1993 DeVille and a 1992 STS with the 4.9L engines and have been severely satisfied with both. This is my first Northstar, i guess i lucked out. My motor seized in June of '05 while I was going up a grade pushing between 5500 and 6500 rpm. I heard a loud clunk, then white smoke, my engine seized. I pulled over and saw that my coolant and other fluids were leaking out from underneaththe. Anyways, the car has been sitting while i've been saving up money to fix it. I got the engine finally pulled out of the car last week and discovered a huge hole on the rear side of the engine right above the oil pan on the opposite side from the trans. I spoke to a mechanic who suggested i get the oil analyzed to see if there is any bearing resedue in it. He suspects that the car ran on too little oil for a period of time or not maintained regularly. That wore down the bearing which in effect had to much clearance and revving high caused the connecting rod to blow. I payed 6500 for the car, spent $400.00 doing the necessary services right after the purchase.(Oil change, Trans service, Coolant Flush...etc..) I also shelled out another $1,000 for a A/C compressor the 2nd month I had it. Basically, I paid a lot of money to drive the car for a total of 3 months before it took a dump. Im not asking for empathy, im just giving a little background of my affiliation with Cadillacs and wondering if anyone has experienced similar trouble or has any ideas on what else could have caused this. . And as far as the old man who i bought it from, what should i do? P.S. - I have recently purchased a used motor with 46K and it should be in my mid next week. We'll see how that goes. (keeping fingers crossed)..... I also had a problem with the transmission where as soon as it shifted into 3rd, it lagged a lot. to maintain speed which normally was between 1500 and 2000 rpm... was magnified to 4500 - 5000 rpm. ANY THOUGHTS OR SUGGESTIONS, POST OR MESSAGE ME A.S.A.P.!!!! Thank you very much for reading and im looking forward to becoming a significant subscriber to this forum.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Eldog, Too bad about your engine. However, from reading almost every post on this site over the last two years or so, that kind of failure is rare. I can tell you that after 182,000 mile at intense, uncompromising workloads, the NorthStar in the BRD has yet to have its innards (or outtards?) fooled with because of any failure. Did you have the oil etc changed and the engine checked in general when the $400 worth of service was done? If so, I would talk to those knowledgeable folks (if anyone) instead of the old guy you bought it from almost 10-months ago. Is the replacement engine the same model (a 300 hp from another ETC or STC) and more importantly - the correct vintage year? What I mean is, mixing 275hp and 300hp engines into the other hp power train can cause compatibility issues with the electronics. And even more trouble can result in getting certain engine years mixed up. For example 93-94 Northstars don't play well with newer ones (do not mix engine electronics etc). However, there are similar issues with many of the engine vintage years and perhaps between Eldorado, Seville and Deville (although I have not heard that specific issue yet. * A COMPATIBILITY CHART WOULD BE A GREAT PROJECT FOR ONE OF OUR MEMBERS * subtle hint... Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Welcome aboard When the oil is LOW, the ADD OIL MESSAGE comes on very prominently, so unless the owner was a total idiot, I doubt that he ran it for long with that message. If I see that message, I am stopping at the next station to add oil or I add it when I get home. We have seen the type of failure you experienced, BUT, its the result of something else causing it, 1) engine was hydro-locked and 2) a member bought a car where the engine had its pistons replaced under warranty and one of the rods cap bolts loosened up and a rod went through the side of the engine. Its really hard to say what happened in your case, but its NOT common. We on this board are firm believers of WOT or Wide Open Throttle upper engine maintenance. IF the problem you experienced was common we would hear about it more often, but we don't. Its possible that your engine suffered from detonation or had a leaky injector or, you had pooling in the intake manifold or you had a sudden and catastrophic head gasket or crack that allowed coolant into the cylinder hydro-locking the engine. You could even have dropped a valve who knows. The only way to properly diagnose what happened is to carefully disassemble the engine and inspect everything, conjecture on the part of the mechanic is just that conjecture. Did you have any or see any check engine lights when this or before this happened? Going back to the 'old man' at this point would only serve to upset him and serve no purpose at all. You had already owned the car 3 months when the problem happened and now its 8 months after the problem. When and if you get the car running again, run the on-board diagnostics and post any DTC codes here, they may shed some light on your tranny problem. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I also had a problem with the transmission where as soon as it shifted into 3rd, it lagged a lot. to maintain speed which normally was between 1500 and 2000 rpm... was magnified to 4500 - 5000 rpm. One more thing I noticed, you noted a problem with the transmission and that it was magnified at 4,500 to 5,000 RPM. Your catastrophic engine damage occurred according to you at 5500 to 6500 RPM. ME? If I was having tranny problems, I don't think I would be running my baby up to the 6500 RPM RED LINE until I knew what the problem was and until I had it fixed. If your tranny let loose at 6,000 rpm and the rpm spiked, that may have been your cause. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I agree with Bodybyfisher about running the inboard diagnostics. An early check of the diagnostics, before you bought it, could have saved you a lot of headaches. Most people do not know about it. I surprised a salesman one time when I check the diagnostics on a Caddy on his lot and discovered an expensive transmission code. He would not deal with me after that. If you have already unhooked the battery, the codes will probably be gone. Buying a used Caddy with no background can be very expensive, I feel your pain. I am guessing, but the transmission problem sounds like shift solenoids, a pretty common, fairly inexpensive($100-$350), problem. Keep us informed, welcome aboard. Once you get the bugs worked out you will find the Northstar is an awesome engine. If it was not for this board, I probably would have sold my 94 Concours, would have never bought another Cadillac, and never have grown to appreciate the engineering of a wonderful engine. My wife will not buy anything else unless it has a Northstar. Good Luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I spoke to a mechanic who suggested i get the oil analyzed to see if there is any bearing resedue in it. He suspects that the car ran on too little oil for a period of time or not maintained regularly. That wore down the bearing which in effect had to much clearance and revving high caused the connecting rod to blow One more thing, if as the mechanic stated you had that much clearance?, you would have heard a knocking sound long before that catostrophic problem that would have alerted you to a serious problem. On Cadillacforums, there was a NS that was knocking badly. The owner took it out and did a WOT, and did what you did blew a hole in the side of the block, BUT.....there was a loud knocking before he did indicating a mechanical problem. You didn't indicate any knocking. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I agree with what everyone else said. A sudden and catrostrophic lower end failure like that on a Northstar is almost unheard of. I will be very curious to know what the autopsy finds. Please let us know. I also agree that going back to the seller at this point would serve no purpose at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Low oil? Highly unlikely. These N* engines were validated on the factory dynos running at WOT for three hundred hours on a 45 degree angle with only FOUR quarts of oil in them. Then they are completely disassemled and all clearances pass with flying colours. A standard test there... The #1 cause for a connecting rod coming through the block would be hydrolocking due to fluid intrusion into a combustion chamber. This may be caused by a stuck injector dumping raw fuel into the chamber, but statistically (relatively low numbers, but still #1) would be a failed head gasket allowing coolant to come rushing in. If you're into disassembly and inspection, take the head off the side with the hole and look for a path through the head gasket over the cylinder that lost the rod. As peviously stated, be very careful when puchasing a used engine that you find the correct match. You will be looking for a 300hp N* later than 94, but not newer than 99, if memory serves me. Anything else will be a major headache, or just plain won't work. You tranny problem does sound like it may be shift solenoids, a fairly common problem with a 10 year old Cadillac transmission. Not a big expense, or complicated fix. Lots of info (and pictures) in the archives here on that subject. Perhaps the best thing to do would be to get it running again, drive it and see what codes may set. That will really narrow it down for you, or lead you directly to the solenoids. In any event, good luck and let us know how it comes out. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Bob you are starting to sound like the Guru! Scary! Good Post Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Bob you are starting to sound like the Guru! Scary! Good Post '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Bob you are starting to sound like the Guru! Scary! Good Post Yeah no kidding . Haven't heard from Bob in a coons age and then he busts out with something that likens to Moses parting the Red Sea....well maybe not quite on that level.....but close . "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95 Eldog Posted February 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Eldog, Too bad about your engine. However, from reading almost every post on this site over the last two years or so, that kind of failure is rare. I can tell you that after 182,000 mile at intense, uncompromising workloads, the NorthStar in the BRD has yet to have its innards (or outtards?) fooled with because of any failure. Did you have the oil etc changed and the engine checked in general when the $400 worth of service was done? If so, I would talk to those knowledgeable folks (if anyone) instead of the old guy you bought it from almost 10-months ago. Is the replacement engine the same model (a 300 hp from another ETC or STC) and more importantly - the correct vintage year? What I mean is, mixing 275hp and 300hp engines into the other hp power train can cause compatibility issues with the electronics. And even more trouble can result in getting certain engine years mixed up. For example 93-94 Northstars don't play well with newer ones (do not mix engine electronics etc). However, there are similar issues with many of the engine vintage years and perhaps between Eldorado, Seville and Deville (although I have not heard that specific issue yet. * A COMPATIBILITY CHART WOULD BE A GREAT PROJECT FOR ONE OF OUR MEMBERS * subtle hint... I SPOKE TO A GUY AT CADDILACS ONLY JUNKYARD OUT IN CHATSWORTH. (818)-772-0707. I ASKED HIM ABOUT THE MIXING OF THE DIFF. HP ENGINES WITH ELECTRONICS, HE STATED "ONCE ITS IN, YOU WONT FEEL THE DIFFERENCE. HE HASNT HEARD OF ANY PROBS." as far as the tranny, the man i took it to said it was burnt up pretty badly... so im having him do what needs to be done... it should be all finished by this week. Someone mentioned posting the trouble codes once the car is on... How do i go about aquiring those codes?? (sorry for not updating you guys sooner) P.S. Thank you all for stating your opinions, they are very interesting and have given me a lot of insight to the problem, and have reassured me that cadillacs are wonderful machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Let it be said that you MUST use the SAME engine, if its a 9 use a 9, if its a Y use a Y..... The GUY at the JUNKYARD doesn't care. If it runs badly, you will go for two R&R's. The reason he says, "ONCE ITS IN, YOU WONT FEEL THE DIFFERENCE", is because he doesn't have the 300 HP engine, they are MUCH harder to FIND! I would NOT take the chance, I recall the GURU stating stay Y or 9... The 300 HP engine has more of a lope to it, it has something to do with a more HI-PERF CAM, the CAM sensor/PCM is calibrated for it... DON'T F AROUND..... This is ESPECIALLY true with the TRANNY, if you replace the TRANNY, the differential ratios are different between Y and 9, and the PCM will give you a CODE! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Eldog, I would pay attention to Fisher, he knows what he's talking about. Those two different engines (Y&9) have very different torque curves and the assigned transmissions for that model are geared accordingly. The computers are programmed to reflect the differences as well.They were not designed to be compatible and certainly not to be intermixed. You won't be happy with the result. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Good Point about the torque curve Bob, imagine using the 275 HP engine with the 300 differential, if the engine did somehow run, it probably would be a PIG off the line.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95 Eldog Posted February 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 i had a vin Y(300) in the ETC and i bought a vin Y.. so.. 9=275 and y = 300? or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 i had a vin Y(300) in the ETC and i bought a vin Y.. so.. 9=275 and y = 300? or what? Ok, To be clear, VIN "9" is the 300hp Northstar with the 3.71 final drive ratio, and matched tranny/computer Vin "Y" is the 275hp Northstar with the 3.11 final drive ratio and matched tranny/computer. In any event, it sounds like you have a match? '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 IF you have a match, I am not sure why the guy at the junk yard would make that statement as their was NO point to it. The statement you posted above implied that you were considering replacing a 300 HP engine with a 275 HP engine.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95 Eldog Posted February 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 i had a vin Y(300) in the ETC and i bought a vin Y.. so.. 9=275 and y = 300? or what? Ok, To be clear, VIN "9" is the 300hp Northstar with the 3.71 final drive ratio, and matched tranny/computer Vin "Y" is the 275hp Northstar with the 3.11 final drive ratio and matched tranny/computer. In any event, it sounds like you have a match? i was told that the 8th digit of your VIN # is the type of motor you have... mines a vin Y ETC. I talked to several cadillac dealerships and they say the same... (but yes, either way i have a match LOL) oh no, i was talking to the guys in the junkyard after i read the comment posted about mixing the diff. engines with the components. I was asking them to see what their stand was on the subject. I bought a VIN Y about a week ago. I never knew that VIN Y and 9 symbolized the diff size engines, but i was always told that they must match when buying an engine, so luckily im in the clear.. thanks for raising the ? bob d and bbf, i went and grabbed my pink slip just to make sure! lol had me sweating bullets for a second, thanks though...better safe than sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Cool Eldog, you are lucky to get a 300 HP engine, they are not easy to come by, good luck, keep us up to date Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 I'll third what BBF & Bob D said. Take heed, I suspect you won't be happy with the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95 Eldog Posted February 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Hey guys, heres a quick update: The motors in. It seems like theres one small problems after another. They had it in last wednesday but failed to see a dime size hole in the oil pan before i pointed it out to them. So they had to drop the motor back out and put a new pan on. The car was running good today, the tranny is the problem now. It stays in one gear and wont shift as the car speed increases. The "check engine" light came on. They said a code came up, code 29.... Any ideas? hopefully it will get sorted out monday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 You will need to get the exact code 29 does not sound familiar. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Hey guys, heres a quick update: The motors in. It seems like theres one small problems after another. They had it in last wednesday but failed to see a dime size hole in the oil pan before i pointed it out to them. So they had to drop the motor back out and put a new pan on. The car was running good today, the tranny is the problem now. It stays in one gear and wont shift as the car speed increases. The "check engine" light came on. They said a code came up, code 29.... Any ideas? hopefully it will get sorted out monday... My 94 Manual does not have just a code "29", is it P029-Shift "B" solenoid maybe? It may need shift solenoid kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Bob you are starting to sound like the Guru! Scary! Good Post I miss the Guru. I love geeks. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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