jdonk Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 I've frequently used caddyinfo for reference as this is my second Cadi, but this is my first time posting. I went back to a local shop that had replaced my radiator coolant tank a year ago to get a couple tires, an oil change and an A/C recharge. When I arrived to pick it up, I was surprised to see they were still working on it. They tell me they pumped in 2lbs of refridgerant but the compressor wouldn't draw it. So they were going to suck out the refridgerant and not charge me for the labor or refridgerant but they wanted me to bring it back for them to try and figure it out. Full disclosure, I'm not a mechanic but before I took it in I researched, mostly on here how to do it myself and found out quickly it involved diagnostics so I gave up - this was before I realized I could view the diagnositcs through the console without a tool. As I was paying for my tires and oil I asked him if he had cleared the ACM code as I had read was necessary for a recharge to work if it was throwing the 'Compressor off' warning. He said they didn't but it should have been drawing it since it was full. I didn't have the technical knowledge to press the issue, and honestly I just want my A/C to work as I work out of my car at this moment. They want me to bring it back in so they can hook it up to a diagnostic machine, I already pulled the codes from the dash, is it necessary to hook it up to a machine? Is the compressor not drawing the refridgerant to be expected if the code wasn't cleared? If its filled back up with refridgerant and then the code is cleared, shouldn't the compressor then draw it?The codes I pulled were: ACM B1247 Current (Very Low A/C Refridgerant Warning) IPC B2710 History - IPC B2781 Current - These all seem key related. RFA B2560 Current - Sorry if its innappropriate to ask mechanic related advice, I didn't see a guidelines thread. Thanks in advance for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 You are correct. The code has to be cleared, then the compressor will come on long enough to allow the gas to enter the system, and keep the compressor on to fill it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 definately correct. The code must be cleared while or after charging the system. I clear it after 1lb is put in. At least they didnt charge you. I highly recommend pulling a vacuum for at least 30 minutes before recharging the proper 2lbs into the system. also may need to add some pag oil to the system. I usually add .5 oz more than what came out during the pull. Been doing ac for awhile and have never had a problem. GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonk Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Should a shop that isn't a specialized shop be aware of this? Honest mistake? Considering doing it myself, have never recharged my own A/C, or replaced the oil in the compressor or used trace dye.I've read that vehicles that once used Freon shouldn't be filled with R-134 without being flushed and cleaned - is that true? Would a 97 deville fall under that umbrella? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Your '97 was always R-134. You need to evacuate your current system prior to refilling. Otherwise you will have air n there that doesn't cool very well, and with that moisture that will damage the internals. To do this, you need an evacuator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonk Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Your '97 was always R-134. You need to evacuate your current system prior to refilling. Otherwise you will have air n there that doesn't cool very well, and with that moisture that will damage the internals. To do this, you need an evacuator. Cursory search suggests that requires a vacuum of some kind, so recharging it myself wouldn't be as simple as buying a kit and some cans of refridgerant. Okay well then, now the question I guess is whether I should go back to the shop that was either unaware (or intentional neglected) of the necessity to clear the ACM code and have them vac and charge it, or go to another shop. They've been exceedingly nice in the past just not sure I can trust em. Thanks for all your help, appreciate any opinions on the above - I know its kind of a grey area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 they seemed pretty honest. I would take it to them if you are comfortable. have them vacuum it and charge 2lbs. then clear the code yourself. your car takes the same r134a that is used today GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonk Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 they seemed pretty honest. I would take it to them if you are comfortable. have them vacuum it and charge 2lbs. then clear the code yourself. your car takes the same r134a that is used today Alright then, one last question before the deed is done and thanks again for all your help. They are gonna insist I hook it up to a diagnostic, I have no problem telling them no - I'm curious however, does the onboard diagnostic show all codes for the vehicle, or are there some that it would require it to be hooked up to a machine to read? I ask because there was some discussion about how many things it could have been and they were really pushing it, they seemed pretty convinced it was a pressure switch that needed replaced - I wasn't so sure. Its only throwing one ACM related code, I imagine it has to be as simple as the refridgerant being gone as it was working properly until it seemingly ran out (over a 2 year period,) granted it has been empty for over a year now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 I would not have them do diagnostic. likely the low pressure code is the cause for not triggering the compressor. If it does not function when it is done and code is cleared then you can proceed further GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonk Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 This is for real my last question for now as it just came to me. If they dump 2 lbs of refrigerant in there and I clear the code, do I need to run the A/C? For how long? I didn't consider the delayed process, normally you run the A/C when it's charging right? Does it matter if it sits in their before charging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 The shop will use a recovery machine to pull out the refrigerant that may be in the system, then pull a deep vacuum on the system for 30-45 minutes. Then the code should be cleared and thern the refrigerant will be charged into the system. Freon is Dupont's term for Refrigerant-12. Your car takes R-134a. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 It varies by vehicle. Some vehicles will not accept the full charge without cycling the system after about the first pound is put in. If that is an issue just clear the code while charging. IIRC you can charge the full 2lbs into our system without it needing to be cycled. GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 they seemed pretty honest. I imagine it has to be as simple as the refridgerant being gone as it was working properly until it seemingly ran out (over a 2 year period,) granted it has been empty for over a year now. I'm sure you don't want to invest hundreds into having AC in a 18 year old car. You obviously have a slow leak. Let them know the off+warmer trick to clear the codes, and let the compressor come on for a charge. At the same time, you must make sure the system is evacuated, and checked for leaks. You could charge the system as is, and get a few more years out of it which depending on the condition of the rest of the car can last for the usable life of the car. Pressure switch is most likely ok, but the computer shut the compressor down to protect it from burning out. You must enable it by clearing the code. They are probably not used to this complexity in cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonk Posted April 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Successfully recharged, blowing cold, but now it seems to switch back and forth from forward vents to top (Under the windshield) with seemingly no method or reasoning. I can't force it to do either. Is this some sort of weird climate control thing or is something going bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Successfully recharged, blowing cold, but now it seems to switch back and forth from forward vents to top (Under the windshield) with seemingly no method or reasoning. I can't force it to do either. Is this some sort of weird climate control thing or is something going bad? There is a vacuum line that runs from inside the car, through the firewall and below the battery tray that can leak. I'd check the line to make sure it's not leaking. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonk Posted April 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 So I noticed this during the winter, but I didn't have the heat running at the time.There appears to be a piece missing? Looks like something is supposed to be mounted on there, not sure if its the problem or not, but I checked while the air was running and it was shooting out a lot of air - warm but still quite a bit of volume. Think this is the culprit? I tried to duct tape it see if it could hold the pressure, it did not last maybe five seconds so I couldn't tell if there was even a little difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'd say something is missing!! You need to close that up. I would buy a small can of fiberglass bondo, and the aluminum mesh. For both it should cost about $25. Lightly sand, then clean the area you will stick the mesh onto. Stick The mesh on, then apply a light coat of bondo on the mesh, and the housing surrounding it. let ot dry, then apply the 2nd coat, dry, hen the third. Smooth it out against the existing housing, then let it dry for a few hours. No sanding is necessary. Or someone else might have a better less expensive option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonk Posted April 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'd say something is missing!! You need to close that up. I would buy a small can of fiberglass bondo, and the aluminum mesh. For both it should cost about $25. Lightly sand, then clean the area you will stick the mesh onto. Stick The mesh on, then apply a light coat of bondo on the mesh, and the housing surrounding it. let ot dry, then apply the 2nd coat, dry, hen the third. Smooth it out against the existing housing, then let it dry for a few hours. No sanding is necessary. Or someone else might have a better less expensive option. If no one else chimes in, some mesh and some bondo fiberglass resin. Any kind of filler? Or should the resin reasonably fill the mesh you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 You could even take a piece of sheet metal and silicone it in place over the hole. This does not affect AC operation (system wise) but will pull dust, dirt, and heat into the cabin GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 It will affect the system since the missing piece allows the air from the blower to be exhausted into the engine compartment and not into the interior. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 The body filler odor might be a little overpowering for a few days. If you go this route. Leave the windows open for a while and drive with the wi dows open. I kind of like the metal with caulk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 that is how I do it. There wont be a smell. I put the plate over the hole and silicone around it. Those covers just fall apart over time. All of mine have. GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I meant the a/c system itself, as in the charge, and pressure system. GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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