hard morning/cold start

[joetoma]

Hello, just join Caddyinfo.. I recently bought a 1996 Eldorado. Car has 149K (miles). I can't seem to figure out why the car has a hard/cold starting problem. It takes 10 + try's first thing in the morning.

Once, it starts, it runs great all day, including starting. I replaced the fuel pressure regulator, spark plugs & wires.& new battery ,no difference. When I try starting the car in the morning, it back fires a little. I smell gas & once it starts, you can see & smell the fuel from the tail pipes.. no current codes are Current, however there are some history code i.e P0108 map sensor & P0325 knock sensor. But, are both showing a history. Can't figure it out. I was going to change the fuel filters,as they look original. Anyone have any ideas? please feel free to comment. thx Joe

[Cadillac Jim]

If you smell fuel in the exhaust, the problem is ignition. Read *all* the codes and post them here. Also, if the Check Engine light is on or flickers, please add that to your post.

From what you say, there are a lot of codes and they don't make sense, in which case you may have a low battery. If so, the voltage dropping below 9 Volts when you crank the car will throw scads of codes and confuse things. You might put a trickle charger on the battery to top it off, clear the codes, and see what comes back before you run the codes again to post here. History codes are important too, because codes go to History when things check good.

If you are getting a P0108, the connector on the MAP sensor probably is loose or dirty. That can case any number of problems.

[rockfangd]

I would have said fuel pump relay but the gas smell says likely not. FPR would be my next guess. How did you check the FPR? Please post any and all codes.

Welcome To caddyinfo. I am confident we will figure it out

[joeb]

What city? Cold is relative. Did u use delco plugs and plug wires? I assume original plugs were the delco plat tip plugs?

[joetoma]

Hello, to all that replied this morning & thanks.. I just replaced the car with a new A/C delco battery & new FPR- fuel pressure regulator& new platim? plugs. the only History codes on the DTC are: P0108- map sensor & P0325 knock sensor ( both are showing as history ). The car is parked in a garage & not outside, ( I live in Vancouver, Canada ) . As I mentioned, once the car starts, it runs & re-starts great all day long. It's the overnight re-starting problem I don't understand. I looked at the 2 fuel filters under the car & they look original. I was going to re-place this weekend. I pulled the spark plugs off the coil & a friend crank the engine, good spark is present. thanks folks..

[joetoma]

Hello, just join Caddyinfo.. I recently bought a 1996 Eldorado. Car has 149K (miles). I can't seem to figure out why the car has a hard/cold starting problem. It takes 10 + try's first thing in the morning.

Once, it starts, it runs great all day, including starting. I replaced the fuel pressure regulator, spark plugs & wires.& new battery ,no difference. When I try starting the car in the morning, it back fires a little. I smell gas & once it starts, you can see & smell the fuel from the tail pipes.. no current codes are Current, however there are some history code i.e P0108 map sensor & P0325 knock sensor. But, are both showing a history. Can't figure it out. I was going to change the fuel filters,as they look original. Anyone have any ideas? please feel free to comment. thx Joe

Hello, to all that replied this morning & thanks.. I just replaced the car with a new A/C delco battery & new FPR- fuel pressure regulator& new platim? plugs. the only History codes on the DTC are: P0108- map sensor & P0325 knock sensor ( both are showing as history ). The car is parked in a garage & not outside, ( I live in Vancouver, Canada ) . As I mentioned, once the car starts, it runs & re-starts great all day long. It's the overnight re-starting problem I don't understand. I looked at the 2 fuel filters under the car & they look original. I was going to re-place this weekend. I pulled the spark plugs off the coil & a friend crank the engine, good spark is present. thanks folks..

[rockfangd]

Where did you see 2 fuel filters? If you are talking about the one behind the bumper at the FR corner, that is a power steering filter IIRC

[joetoma]

Where did you see 2 fuel filters? If you are talking about the one behind the bumper at the FR corner, that is a power steering filter IIRC

Wow, looks like another fuel filter, thx for the heads up..

[rockfangd]

IT DOES. No problem

[Cadillac Jim]

I would fix the MAP sensor code first and see if that solves the problem. You can probably do that by popping off the beauty cover, locating the MAP sensor on the intake manifold near the throttle body, pulling the connector and cleaning it. Make sure that the terminals in the connector are tight and not pushed back into the connector, and that the wires do not pull out of the connector easily.

I once had a MAP sensor code on my 1997 ETC at about ten years and 120,000+ miles and had it in my hand, ready to take my wife's car to the dealer to get a new one. After clean-up and inspection, it looked like new. So, I put it back in, cleaned up the connector, put everything back in place, and never had a problem with it again.

[winterset]

Then there is the problem that rockfangd had where it seems like a little coolant was seeping into a cylinder causing a stumble on cold starts in the morning. Could this be something similar? I think the fix was a little bars stop leak in the radiator.

[joetoma]

Then there is the problem that rockfangd had where it seems like a little coolant was seeping into a cylinder causing a stumble on cold starts in the morning. Could this be something similar? I think the fix was a little bars stop leak in the radiator.

I cleaned the Map sensor, still making no difference. The DTC codes show as History for the map sensor code P0108. Now that you mention coolant leaks. I have some dripping of anti-freeze down near the oil pan. Not sure where it's coming from. I' ve only owned this Eldorado since Dec 01 2013, & have not really driven it. It's always had the morning hard start. Hope the coolants not seeping into the cylinder causing the hard starts. Once started... starts all day, until the next morning. Thinking that Bar's stop leak or Blue devil head repair can't hurt. Last note, I did notice water drops/dripping from the muffler upon start up...

[Cadillac Jim]

You have to clear the MAP sensor code and see if it comes back to know whether or not you have fixed it.

Don't add Bars Leaks until you need to, i.e. when you flush the coolant. And, forget Blue Devil head repair. When Northstars have head gasket problems, its nearly always because a head bolt pulled out and nothing will fix it short of a Timesert job. If you want to eliminate head gasket leakage, have your coolant tested for combustion by-products or have a cooling system pressure test.

Northstar head gasket problems usually begin with a phantom loss of coolant - it needs coolant occasionally but there is no visible leak. The rate of coolant loss increases, and, one day, the car suddenly overheats just for a few seconds, usually after moderate or heavy throttle at highway speeds, such as pulling a grade or passing a truck, then releasing the throttle to cruise position. The coolant loss and overheating gradually get worse and worse until you fix the car. The overheating symptoms mimic a sticking thermostat or a clogged bypass, and a clogged bypass is often mistaken for a head gasket problem at first. I don't hear any of these symptoms from you, and dripping coolant on the oil pan is not a typical symptom of a head gasket leak.

[winterset]

I agree with Jim 100% not to use blue devil, or any of those radiator sealants not specifically recommended by the manufacturer, and that the MAP needs to be fixed first, along with the external leaks.

Here is the test to verify coolant isn't messing with the spark plugs in the morning with no antifreeze pressure on a cooling engine:

- at night, wait for the car to cool down.

- remove the surge tank / radiator cap.

- start up the car, and let it run a minute till it runs ok, (unrelated to this test, now might be a good time to look into the surge tank & see if there is flow)

- shut the car off.

- replace the radiator cap.

- call it a night.

- in the morning, just start the car up as usual, and see if there is a difference.

I must stress that that the external leak(s) you are seeing need to be addressed. a sure way to destroy a N* is to have it run low on coolant.

After the leak is addressed, I see nothing wrong with adding Bars stop leak powder into the radiator hose. It used to be recommended by GM back in the day. Aluminum is pourous, and sepage can happen into the cylinder area without it being too serious.