eldoman95 Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 just disabled trac control and did a sweet *smurf* burnout. good times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Wonder how long the front differential can handle this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Not long as long as only one tire was spinning. If both were spinning, there would be no differential action, and it would be fine. But in the real world, both tires rarely spin together, unless the circumstances were just right. That's why it's to your advantage to leave T/C on. It not only prevents wheelspin to get you off the line faster, but it acts as a "posi traction" unit in that it limits the speed of the spinning wheel and effectively transferrs power to the wheel with traction. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldoman95 Posted October 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 i dont know... not like the trans is sliping... its all locked up.. the only thing spinning freely is the front tires, which for the record, are both spining, not just one side. do you still think this puts too much stress on the diff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldoman95 Posted October 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 the reason i know this is cause there is rubber on the road from both tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Doesn't the trans. default to 2nd gear when the traction control is disabled? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldoman95 Posted October 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 from what i know it does... but the tires spun to make a nice cloud of smoke ive yet to see from a caddy. i have to say i was surprised! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 i dont know... not like the trans is sliping... its all locked up.. the only thing spinning freely is the front tires, which for the record, are both spining, not just one side. do you still think this puts too much stress on the diff? If both tires were spinning at the same speed, there is no increased stress on the differential (because there would be no speed difference). If both were spinning at the same speed, it was sheer luck, because that very rarely happens, especially with FWD cars. That's why they're equipped with T/C. Except for doing a burnout, you would want to leave the T/C engaged, to protect the equipment and to decrease your tire spin. Burning rubber slows you down. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 all the T/C does is cut engine power when one wheel starts going faster than the other.. it sucks. It totally destroys your off the line time if anything slips. too bad i'm replacing my whole computer so no more t/c and eventually a more posi-type diff anyway.. Once i get the $ saved up i won't be messin around heEhehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldoman95 Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 sounds cool bigfoo, let me know how it works when its done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 oh I will, but I fear it won't be for several months before i get enough of the pieces together to be able to implement a small section of 'my plan'. The plan is to have 450HP or so, without forced induction, and be using a aftermarket ECU and a laptop for endless tuning potential Then on top of that to add another 150-200 HP nitrous shot.. but like I said, it's going to take a while to save up that kinda cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronson Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 That's what I need to get back and forth to work! Now If I had the fake NOS I'd be set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 LOL.. Why fake it when you can get real NO2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbuc Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 On the OBDI cars, with traction control disabled, it should stay in first gear. I believe the 1996 and up caddy's with the northstar that have OBDII, it will lock out first gear. It does this in another attempt to limit wheel spin. As long as both wheels spin at the same time, you should be fine. The cars with the L37 motor(STS,ETC,DTS) have somewhat of a limited slip diff. This would be why you get both wheels spinning together. I have a 1966 Mustang coupe at home, that will literally roast the the rear right tire. It does this because I still have an open diff. (Lack of funds right now) As long as both spin, there should not be a problem, except for you outrageous tire expenses. Since I see some people are talking about NO2, I would suggest the true Positraction diff from www.DomesticPerformance.com. I don't think the stock diff would be able to handle a sudden surge of power right off the line. They also have a "bullet proof" 4T80E tranny that you can get the Posi diff pre-installed in before shipping if you want. If you are looking to make a fire breathin beast out of a Northstar, their "bullet proof" tranny would be the way to go. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 The cars with the L37 motor(STS,ETC,DTS) have somewhat of a limited slip diff. This would be why you get both wheels spinning together. The only difference in the transaxle is the final drive ratio (3.71 vs. 3.11). Both differentials are of the "open" type. The traction control system gives the moderate effect of a limited slip differential, and all Northstar cars are equipped with all speed traction control. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 all the T/C does is cut engine power when one wheel starts going faster than the other.. it sucks. It totally destroys your off the line time if anything slips. too bad In general this is not the case. The traction control system utilizes the brake of the spinning wheel to keep it under control. Only after the computer decides that it's used too much brake (and it's under the possibility of overheating), will it start dropping cylinders. I've never had this happen to me, even doing WOTs in snow and ice. The traction control system, if operating properly, has always been very effective for me. It only applies the brake to the spinning wheel...thus giving the added effect of a limited slip differential. If you're saying that the T/C hurts your acceleration, you're really missing the point of it. If T/C is engaged, it means one of your front wheels is spinning pretty good. There is a good amount of slip built-in before the T/C threashold arrives, so you can squeal and chirp pretty good before it cuts in. But if it does cut in, it means one of your tires is really spinning....and it intervenes and distributes power to the wheel with traction. Spinning tires hurts acceleration; T/C helps it. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 it doesn't do that on mine.. it cuts the engine.. for instance i'll punch it from a stop and it will take off and then bog and sputter with 'traction engaged' on the dic and then it will take off again. I don't like it I'd rather control the spin myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 It sounds like yours may not be operating correctly. You should feel no "bog" when the traction is engaged. On mine, I'll hear the ABS pulsing the offending wheel, as I continue to zoom off, with no drop in acceleration rate. If you're going to replace your computer anyway, it may not be worth it to investigate the behavior of your current T/C system. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK 99STS Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 It sounds like yours may not be operating correctly. You should feel no "bog" when the traction is engaged. On mine, I'll hear the ABS pulsing the offending wheel, as I continue to zoom off, with no drop in acceleration rate. If you're going to replace your computer anyway, it may not be worth it to investigate the behavior of your current T/C system. Jason, Mine does that to. I crowned a hill at WOT and the front end got really light. You would have thought I hit a mud slide it shut down so much. Like Bigfoo said if I nail it from a stop without backing off a little(I've learned how to manipulate it a bit) it will shut down bigtime. Maybee the newer models are different, but it starts with the brakes and then it will start cutting cylinders as many as 4 If I recall according to Guru. Once traction is restored, the motor will come back to full power. MARK 99STS TURBOCHARGED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Mark, that's interesting because even if I stand on it on sheer ice, it won't resort to cutting cylinders until a good amount of time passes -- so long in fact that I've never had mine to cut engine power. I certainly wouldn't expect it to cut engine power on dry pavement. It should just grab and go. Perhaps the 98+ systems are algorithmed differently. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldgamer Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 ...The traction control system utilizes the brake of the spinning wheel to keep it under control... What I know traction control system interrupts the fuel delivery, not utilizes the brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 From the 1997 service manual, page 5E2-3. Similar systems would exist on all vehicles I would presume. "The TCS operates only when the system senses that one or both of the front wheels is slipping or beginning to lose traction. If the system senses that excessive wheel slip is present, the TCS will become active. The TCS keeps an optimum slip rate on the front wheels by applying and modulating hydraulic pressure to the front wheel brakes. Traction control is simultaneously controlled by the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) in the event that APPLYING THE BRAKES ALONE DOES NOT PROVIDE NECESSARY TRACTION [emphasis added]. In this case, the PCM receives a Torque Request signal from the EBTCM requesting the desired torque level. The PCM will selectively disable fuel to certain cylinders (up to a maximum of 5) to achieve this reduction." From that description, and in my experience, you'd have to have bleach down or be on sheer ice to initiate the PCM dropping cylinders. The TCS on mine is never active for more than about 5 seconds. And throughout its entire operating presense, I'm acclerating the whole time. Sometimes, I'm already up over 40 mph before the TCS disengages. Like I said, you should be able to punch it and just BE GONE. "Bigfoo", maybe your tires are playing a role in this. I have sticky Pilots on mine. It doesn't even take 1/2 throttle to spin 'em, but even if I stand on it, the TCS does its job and I'm just flat outta there, without cylinders dropping or a reduction in acceleration. Perhaps I'm beating a dead horse here, because it appears that's not how all the systems operate...although I couldn't think of any reason for a major change. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK 99STS Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Jason, When I put slicks on the front at the track, I have no wheel spin and the car really takes off. I loose no forward momentum. Without the slicks, it jumps out of the hole, falls on its face and then takes off. I also have 255 Pilots on mine, so I've got a lot of rubber on the road. Both Bigfoo and I have the Corsa exhaust and K&N cone filters. I know I'm pushing at least 20more hp. Maybee with the extra power our cars break so easy and fast that TC shuts us down. I could never smoke the tires like I can now before the mods. I have laid dual patches 10 ft long before TC kicks in so it is acting like posi traction, but it still shuts it down. My suspicion is that once the tires break, the spin is so excessive that TC backs it off to regain traction and you loose all of your momentum and you have to start over. It becomes basically a rolling start at that point. If I hit the pedal just right(about 1/2 way down, hold for a split second, then floor it, I get the best take off, but again that is nothing more than a rolling start. It is rather frustrating. MARK 99STS TURBOCHARGED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Mark, I'd imagine that with your high stall converter, it would be easy for the engine to overcome the TCS easily. But like I said, mine seems to spin all the way through 30-40 mph, because the TCS stays engaged until then. I only have 225 Pilots, and it's very easy to break them loose. I dunno... I would say that if mine acted the same as y'all's, I'd probably get frustrated too. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 It is frustrating.. If i get some time I'm going to go over the electrical module for the traction control and see if I can make a jumper or something to disable it completely.. might not be possible if it's tightly integrated into the pcm. It won't let me peel the tires more than a foot it instantly shuts me down. I have pretty good tires too (symmetry's) which have decent traction and it still shuts me down.. darn thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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