Ranger Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Well, I guess it's my turn. I have been noticing lately that my A/C is cool but not cold. No low refrigerant warning......yet. Today I noticed there is oil on the frame below the clutch. It is apparent that it is coming from the center of the clutch and being slung off. This would indicate to me that the seal is leaking. The manual says the the seal can be replaced without removing the compressor from the car. This all brings up several questions. Anyone done this on the car? There doesn't appear to be too much room down there. Also, among all the tools I have, I do not have any compressor tools. I have never worked on a compressor before. I am not adverse to buying tools (if you saw my garage and basement workshop you'd understand. "Tim The Toolman" has nothing on me). As I see it I at very least need a clutch removal tool and a seal and/or bearing tool. Anything else? By the time I buy the tools, seal and maybe bearings does it make any sense to do this or would I be better off just getting a new compressor and doing an R & R. Also if I should go that route, what about the clutch? Does a new compressor come with a clutch? Should I replace it as a precausion or just the clutch bearing? I am leaning towards the R & R but would appreciate suggestions and advice from those who have been there before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Based on your description, it sounds like the compressor shaft seal is leaking. The shaft seal can be replaced while the compressor is on the car - remove the front wheel and splash guard and you'll be looking at the compressor clutch. The replacement shaft seal is about $25. You will need the shaft seal remover/installer, seal protector (protects the seal during installation) and the puller and installer to remove and install the clutch. Many Autozones rent the clutch puller/installers. The shaft seal tools are not that expensive at NAPA. I feel that WAY too many compressors are replaced these days....If it were my car, I'd add a can of R-134a. It might take a couple of years to leak out. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Thanks Kevin. Maybe that's the way to go. Sounds like even with the tools it will be less than the cost of a new compressor, plus I have more tools. Either way I have to have it vaccumed and recharged. What I am more concerened about is the oil leaking. Won't that cause the compressor to seize eventually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Larry, I got my compressor at gmotors and it was about $265, Mike PS, I have the hub removal/installation tools for the 91, if the tools work for your car I can send them to you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Thanks Mike. I appreciate the offer. Guess I'll have to compare prices and see which way is best to go. The other alternative is to R & R and then rebuild this one and save it for a spare but I kind of like the idea of not having to remove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Kevin, Check this link. Is the "Robinair 10861" clutch plate remover/installer the one I need. There are several on this page. I didn't see any seal tools. Guess I'll have to go to Napa for that. Also, it is hard to tell how much oil leaked out. What would be a safe guess on how much to replace? Where do I put it if I don't remove the compressor? What kind do I use? Pag oil? http://thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW372.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Larry, You need the Robinair 41067 tool. The 10861 is for the R4 and DA-6 compressors. Your car has the HR-6. Since the refrigerant must be recovered before you replace the shaft seal, just inject an ounce or two into the low side port when the system is empty. Use high viscosity (150) PAG refrigerant oil. The amount of oil that leaked out probably looks like a lot more than it actually is. If you decide to just add a can of R-134a and if the compressor is not noisy, it is probably fine. The shaft seal on my '93 Fleetwood is leaking but it only needs a can of R-12 about every 3 years. I haven't found the time to replace it yet. This spring, the compressor sounded a little noisy and since the system had a full charge, I just added 1-1/2 oz of refrigerant oil with an injector to the low side and the compressor was quiet. That was the first time any oil was added since the car was new. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Kevin I have the hub removal tools for my 91 Seville, will Larry be able to use them? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 I am not planning on recovering refrigerant. I'm just going to vent it since it is R134a and not R12. I'll put an oz. or two in the low side while it is open. The compressor is still quiet. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Mike, Looking at the Tool Warehouse web site the tool is pretty cheap. I'll just buy one to add to my collection. Thanks for the offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 I don't think the '91 tool will work on the '97 as the '91 probably had a different compressor. The '97 had the HR-6 which was introduced for the 1994 model year for use with R-134a. I would suspect the '91 used the DA-6 compressor. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 I don't think the '91 tool will work on the '97 as the '91 probably had a different compressor. The '97 had the HR-6 which was introduced for the 1994 model year for use with R-134a. I would suspect the '91 used the DA-6 compressor. No question the compressors are different, I just wasn't sure if the hub removal tools were the same. I would have sent them to Larry to save him the expense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 The tool catalogs have separate tools for the DA-6/R-4 and the HR-6 so my guess is that something is different between the two tools. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 I am now having second thoughts. Reading the shop manual is says "A shaft seal should not be replaced because of a small amount of oil found on adjacent surfaces but only after actual refrigerant leakage has been found using an approved leak detector". I am now wondering if it might not be a better idea to just add 1 can of refrigerant with pag oil in it and let it go. I just don't like leaks of any kind on my cars. I suppose I'd better find someone with a "sniffer" and see if there is a refrigerant leak or not. I just don't understand how it could be leaking oil and not refrigerant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 I would just add a can of R-134a (without oil) and see how it performs. I've never seen R-134a with PAG oil in the same can. It usually contains ester oil and GM recommends PAG-150 oil. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Wow Kevin, that was a quick response. I think I just answered my own question. I went out and took another look at it. The frame beneath the compressor is wetter than I thought and there is a line of oil on the hood insulation where the clutch slung it off. So apparently it is leaking enough to warrant the seal replacement. Off to the stores to find some tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 More problems. I can't find the tools locally. Napa didn't even have the seal. "thetoolwarehouse.net" has the clutch tool but not the seal remover/intaller and protector. Where can I find these tools? Also Kevin, you said I have the "HR6" compressor but my manual says it is an HD6/HT6. Will the same tool work on both or is there a big difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 I think the tools will work with the HD6/HT6 compressor. I would double check with the supplier of the tool though. www.acsource has a lot of A/C tools as does www.lenzdist.com Do not attempt a shaft seal replacement without the seal protector or remover/installer or you will be doing the job again. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 I have tried both of those places. Neither has the seal tools. You answered my next question about the seal protector. I'll have to keep searching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Did you call Lenz? They have the clutch plate remover/installer - 41067 for $14.60 but I remember that you found that at the tool warehouse. NAPA should be able to order the seal/shaft protector and the seal installer/remover tool. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 No I didn't call Lenz. Napa could order the clutch tool but I am not sure if they could get the seal tools. I'll check both tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydone Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 u might check on ebay i bought a new compressor still in box for $108 for my 1997 concours just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Good thought Johnny, I'll give that a shot as I have been having second thoughts about doing the shaft seal (again). I called around just to see what it would cost to have it done as a comparison since I still have to buy several tools. One shop said they don't do it. They just R & R. Another was a lot more helpful. He said that he doesn't have a lot of luck doing them. He explained that the shaft seal is ceramic and the shaft must per perfectly clean when it is installed. The slightest of rust on the shaft will scratch the seal and cause a leak. I looked at the compressor from under the car and of coarse where it is located it is subjected to much moisture and salt spray. I could see a lot of rust on the outside clutch mount. How much is beyond that is anyones guess. He said they are just not as condusive to replacement as the older ones which were mounted on top of the engine. Add to all of this that it still will have the original bearings with 90K on them you have to consider a new unit for $100 or so on ebay or even $256 from gmpartsdirect per Mike might be the better way to go. This brings me to another question. Does the new compressor come ready to install or do I need to swap parts (clutch, pully). Is it shipped with oil or do I need to add the oil? Mike, have you done yours yet? How bad of a job is it? The manual says to remove the oil filter and cooling lines. Can't you ever get at a component without disassmbling half the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Larry, I have not done mine yet, I planned on installing just the compressor tomorrow morning if I feel better, I have not been feeling good for the last week. My compressor came complete with everything. I will let you know how it goes. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 I changed my seal out a few months ago. You can buy a seal from advance auto. Their website is http://www.partsamerica.com It comes with a new seal, seal protector, snap ring, and o-ring. To change the clutch you need a clutch puller, which I got from http://www.tooltopia.com , a small snap ring plier which I got from sears, a small long screwdriver, a hammer, and a large deep well socket. First thing you do is remove the clutch with the clutch puller, then you remove the cotton gauze, then you pull the snap ring with the pliers, use the hammer and screwdriver to "grab" the seal and spin it out. Be very careful not to put the screwdriver in to deep or you'll mess up the components behind the seal. Then use the screwdriver to remove and install the o-ring. This is kind of a tricky manuver so be patient. Once you get the new o-ring back in you put the seal protector over the compressor shaft. Then you install the seal, you use the deep well socket to seat it. Put the new snap ring in and reassemble, and you're done. Just make sure that you put the proper air space between the clutch and the compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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