Ranger Posted September 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Thanks Dan, You make it sound very easy and make me lean the other way again. I feel like I am walking a tight rope in a wind storm . I am a little confused about the seal protector though. What is it? Steel, plastic? If it fits over the shaft obviously the seal can't seal to the shaft as it's ID must be large enough to fit over the protector. I must assume the O ring does the sealing then. Where did you get the seal protector? It sure would make my dicission a lot easier if I could see the parts and new exactly what I was doing before I got in there. Having never done this before it's like OJT (not that it would be the first time). I sure would rather change the seal than the whole compressor but after talking to the guy this morning I am really waffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 The seal protector is plastic and it comes with the seal. I think you might be better off with a new compressor. This job is very difficult to do. You could go ahead and give it a try, and if it dosen't work, go ahead and buy a new compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 AHH, that would explain why I couldn't find a seal protector on any parts sites. It seems like it should be easier than R & R the whole compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Kevin, I can't get anyone to answer the phone at acsouce.com. Maybe you can answer my questions before I order online. My manual mentions a double lip seal so I assume the one I need is the middle one on the following link for $15.75 http://www.acsource.com/index.asp?PageActi...TS&Category=327 ON the following link they show a "shaft" protector. Is that the same as the shaft "seal" protector? http://www.acsource.com/index.asp?PageActi...PROD&ProdID=440 Lastly they have a ceramic seal seat remover/installer. Is that the correct seal tool? I have doubts because apparently I am not using the ceramic seal. Also Dan mentioned that he removed and installed the seal without the tool. Is that tool neccassary or is it one of those GM tools that just makes the job a little easier? The manual also mentions an O ring remover/instaler <_ .> http://www.acsource.com/index.asp?PageActi...TS&Category=311 Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 You are better off with the proper tools. It makes the job a whole lot easier, not to mention a whole lot less likely to mess things up. Also the compressor on my car is slightly different than yours. You have an HD6, mine is an HR6. The way they go together is pretty much the same, however the seal is slightly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 The seal is not ceramic...The shop you spoke with probably hasn't changed a shaft seal in years..... I believe your compressor takes the double lip seal. I doubt that the ceramic seal remover tool will work with the double lip seal. The shop manual should show a picture of the seal remover/installer. If all else fails, you could buy the tool from Kent-Moore - they supply the tools to the GM dealerships. You can use a piece of wood or plastic to work the o-ring into the groove. Why did you change your user ID? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Thanks Kevin, You confirmed my suspisions about the seal. They do have a drawing of the seal in the manual and it looks more like the the seal on the right on the following link but the manual says "double lip seal" which would indicate the center one. http://www.acsource.com/index.asp?PageActi...TS&Category=327 The problem is acsource will not answer their phones to answer any of my questions so I guess I'll have to take my buisness elsewhere. It would be nice to get everything at one place though. I'll try Kentmore but I suspect their prices may be quite a bit higher. What amazes me about this whole thing is how the system can hold freon while it is leaking so much oil. It still cools the car pretty comfortably but I can see oil slung from the clutch onto the frame, CV joint boot, hood insulation and radiator hose, so it must have a fairly good leak. My biggest fear is if I ignore it, it will take out the compressor from lack of lubrication. I changed my ID afther the recent troll attack. I noticed most people did not use their full name and thought some anonimity on the internet might not be a bad idea. I figured those who know me would know who Ranger was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 I would consider buying the seal at the GM parts counter. It is not that much money anyway. Maybe they can give you some advice on the installation/removal tools. I'm surprised that NAPA/Carquest doesn't have those tools in their catalog for special order. Some guys wrap the threaded shaft with electrical tape. This may be an option if you can't locate the seal protector. The main idea is to keep the threaded shaft from damaging the seal during installation. The oil is confined to the front area of the compressor right? If so, you can just change the shaft seal and be done with it. Sometimes the HD6 compressors leak at the case seals and you need specialized fixtures to replace the case seal. Compressor replacement is usually the best route when the case seals are leaking. You will notice oil ALL over the compressor when the case seals are leaking. I wouldn't give up on procuring the tools yet. I said it many times before that far too many compressors are replaced due to simple shaft seal leaks. Once you have it back together, add a couple of ounces of PAG-150 oil to the low pressure port on the accumulator to replace the oil that leaked out. Or tell the shop that evacuates and recharges the car to add 2 ounces. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 OK, now I understand what the seal protector does. Yeah, I've used the electrical tape trick before. I'm sure I can farbicate something. I'll call Lenz and see what they have. The only problem seems to be the seal remover/installer. I can get the clutch tool easily. The case seal seems fine. Compressor is dry. It's just the shaft seal. That's why I am planning to fix it. R & R seems like a big waste of money & a lot more work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 UPDATE I just talked to a very helpfull guy at a local A/C shop and he convinced me that I probably do not need to replace the seal. He said the oil is most likely years of minute seapage (it is 7 yrs. old with 90K) and suggested cleaning the clutch face with Brake Kleen and keep an eye on it. Even the service manual says not to replace the seal because of a little oil leaking. This makes sense as he said (and confirmed my suspision) that a seal leak would bleed the freon faster than the oil due to the tiny molecules of the freon and I would have no cooling. In fact he said the sealing on the service ports is done by the caps rather than the schreader valve (leave the caps off and the system will bleed down). Since my system still cools, he suggested adding maybe 1/4 can of R134a and check the duct tempurature. I am blowing about 65 degrees and he said it should be about 55. So I cleaned the clutch and will watch it for more seepage. If it remains ralatively oil free I will add freon in the future (maybe next spring). Kevin, thank you for all the information. You have been very helpfull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 You just didnt want to do all that work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Glad to help out. Way back in this thread, I suggested adding some R-134a and keeping an eye on the system. . I would add some R-134a as you want the system to be fully operational when running the defroster during the winter. My off the cuff guess is that it will take more than 1/4 can of R-134a to restore the cooling performance of the system but it is hard to say without monitoring the high & low pressure readings. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 " You just didnt want to do all that work!" Mike, you are sooo correct. "Way back in this thread, I suggested adding some R-134a and keeping an eye on the system." Kevin, yes I remember that. I could have probably come to this decision much earlier had we been able to have a discussion about it. I have noticed that some refill kits come with a guage. Are they any good at all. I really can't justify a set of guages for as much as I would use them. I suspect I know what you are going to say but I have to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Those gages that come with the refill kits are pretty much worthless as they only monitor the low side. You need to monitor the high pressure as well as the low pressure side of the system to accurately troubleshoot/assess the system. If you only have a low side gage, you could be adding refrigerant and the high side pressure could be skyrocketing you would not notice it. A manifold gage set is not as expensive as you might think. I bought my set of R-134a gages from Carquest a couple of years ago when they had them on sale for $55. They are made in the USA and have a sight glass and a solid aluminum block. You might find a set at a very good price this time of year. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Hmm, I may have to look into that. Then all I have to do is learn how to use it. Never done too much A/C work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Hmm, I may have to look into that. Then all I have to do is learn how to use it. Never done too much A/C work. Ditto, its something I want to get into though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Hmm, I may have to look into that. Then all I have to do is learn how to use it. Never done too much A/C work. Ditto, its something I want to get into though.... You can never have too many tools or too much knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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