tjtjwdad Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 I got a new cell phone last year and it has the 911 locator and has the option for others (not sure what that is). I caught a few news stories that people can see where the person they are talking to is actually located. Jim White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 All cell phones can be located. It doesn't have anything to do with your phone. The cell towers can triangulate your signal and find you in a heart beat. Regarding the other issues, it's obviously a fine line what is private these days and what is not and our opinions are obviously different. I make the choice to forget about what the government is doing and just go on living. You'll be arguing your whole life if you devote yourself to changing the government or its laws. Just take it as it is and enjoy the life you've been given. My life here is short and I choose to concentrate on what's going to happen AFTER I leave this world...because that one is eternal. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich W Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Well said, jadcock! As our technology advances, so does the ability of someone (business, government, banks, etc.) to know what you buy and what you do. I'd rather have my wife in a car with Onstar, than in a car without it, especially if she has to work late at night. While, my days of speeding are pretty much over. I know that "safe" high speed driving is only as good as the quality and condition of your tires. If I get caught speeding I will accept the fact that it's my fault (I know the law) and will pay the penalty. If you spend all of your time worrying about that, you will not be able to enjoy life. Don't worry, be happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 I got a new cell phone last year and it has the 911 locator and has the option for others (not sure what that is). I caught a few news stories that people can see where the person they are talking to is actually located. Yes this is true. In fact, Virginia underwent an E911 program (standing for Enhanced 911), with compliance for Phase I/II wireless devices. This enables a 911 operator to locate you even on a wireless device. Other states have this program as well, but Virginia had an E911 "tax" on the cell phone bill that you saw each month (I think it was like 20 cents or something) and the E911 commission used that money to pay for some very high resolution aerial photography for the entire state. 911 operators across the state have access to this data as part of their Geographic Information System and can use that to the benefit of the public. So when you call 911 on a cell phone from a hiking trail, X miles from the nearest paved road, the dispatcher can actually talk the first responders through the woods as he or she sees things on the new aerial photography that the commission provided through the E911 tax. They can see the "X" on the map where you are (as the cell phone towers triangulate your location), and they can also see the nearest road and the dirt roads and trails on the aerial photography which are largely unmapped in other mediums. This was impossible just a few years ago, when the best mapping was simply paved road centerlines and maybe buildings if you were lucky. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjtjwdad Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Jason, Thanks for the 911 info. What I saw on the news was (what appeared) the ability for someone to locate you. Not a bad idea particularly if you're hiking in the Olympic Mountains. As far as ONSTAR and eavesdropping, I don't subscribe to ONSTAR (at this time) simply because I just choose not to. I am fully aware that ANY communication is capable of being monitored at any given time. Since I'm the only one who drives my Seville I just don't feel I need it due to where I'm driving it. If I had a SUV with ONSTAR and was off road quite a bit, was in remote areas or if my wife and kids were in it, then it would be worth every penny because the goods out weigh the bad. On a separate note I often wonder over time if the ONSTAR version I have will be superceded and outdated thus rendered useless. My older brother in Northern VA has it on his 98/99 Tahoe. His plan has a better rate than the one I would get. Go figure!!! Take Care and be careful out there! Jim White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cad1 Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 I am not sure "worried" is the proper term but I will never become complacent and passive if my representatives are not representing me as the government is employed by the people. We have a responsibility to stand up for what we believe in, Jesus even had a bumpy road. This thing has been viewed near a 1000 times!!! Cad1 92 Deville w/210k miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Huh-Oh, guys, guess what. "They" can even monitor all these messages we've typed on this Cadillac board. To those paranoid few, they probably have already read your stuff, and are now on your trail for good. They know who you are, and that you are busy taking the OnStar equipment off your Cadillac. The satellites are guiding the black helicopters to your hideout even as we speak. It would probably be a good idea to throw your cell phone away and run. ( Sorry, I'm just trying to be funny.) Seriously, I personally am very opposed to local authorities being able to put a camera and radar gun up and take pictures of speeders or other moving violations, then send the vehicle's owner a ticket in the mail, and here's why. The law of this country says you are innocent until proven guilty, but the manufacturers and proponents of the camera-driven law enforcement system are succeeding in getting that reversed, so we are guilty because a camera says so, and the burden of having to prove you are innocent is the new order of the day. If you hear of your city or state trying to adopt this, be alert and fight it as hard as you can. The manufacturers representatives go to the city hall or state legislature and sell the authorities on how much money can be made or saved with the new automatic law enforcement devices. That is certainly a true statement, but not in my opinion what the framers of the Constitution had in mind. This is my first post since Bruce set up the new board. I'm glad to be back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 The law of this country says you are innocent until proven guilty, but the manufacturers and proponents of the camera-driven law enforcement system are succeeding in getting that reversed, so we are guilty because a camera says so, and the burden of having to prove you are innocent is the new order of the day. It would seem to me that at picture IS proof, or am I wrong? As far as "innocent until proven guilty", the last time I was in traffic court (longtime ago) I got the distinct impression that I was guilty until I could prove myself innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 When I was a young prosecuting attorney I had to produce live witnesses in person at each trial. That is an absolute. When charged with a crime, including speeding, you have a right to remain silent, and you cannot be forced to testify in your own defense. The government has to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt, and the defendant does not have to prove anything. They take a picture of a car showing the license plate (but not the driver, in many cases), which becomes the proof, then the registered owner of the vehicle receives the citation and if the owner does nothing, they are found guilty without a trial. My problem is the automatic finding of guilt of a crime in the absence of any evidence the registered owner was driving the car (committing a crime) at the time of the violation. This is not right. For example, when an officer makes a traffic stop in person, the driver, not the owner, is the one that is charged with the violation of the law. Here's another flaw in the photographic scenario---you are looking at a still photo of a car that some other piece of electronic equipment says was travelling at a certain speed at a certain time. That makes me very uncomfortable. In actuality, you are charging the vehicle with the crime, and making its owner responsible for paying the fine for the crimes the car committed. Can you see how this starts to take on some very wierd and dangerous characteristics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Can you see how this starts to take on some very wierd and dangerous characteristics? yes, I sure can. In your scenario wouldn't the owner have to prove that someone else was driving the car (guilty until proven innocent)? What about a picture of the car in the middle of an intersection with the light red? No question there I would think (in my non legal mind). On the otherside of the coin I do know people who have easily beaten $1000 toll fines even when they had a picture of the car. The camera worked but the automatic toll device is mechanical and subject to failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Fascinating subject. A few related thoughts. Since the OnStar brags about calling you if there is trouble (air bag deploy, etc), one woud assume that it is tied into the car's "network" of discrete inputs, outputs and various sensors. You can turn off your cell phone and we hope they don't tranmit -unless we want them to (high paranoia here...) However, can OnStar listen in - without a call being initiated or shown in progress? Depends on the vehicle "network" of controls I suppose (and some kid-wizard). Marketing decided how to sell the OnStar best, but all the data in the network is probably availabe for uploading - or downloading. Can GM market a car that diagnose itself, attempt repairs or schedule service? Why not shutdown or limit vehicles via remote command? Handy for a cop behind you huh? OK then that's just crazy, we will promise to only use it to stop traffic for emergency vehicles (wink). Why worry about camera-tickets or the rental-cars issuing citations? Our vehicles are simply very plush, mobile robots that will protect us by going beyond simply reporting us... Law enforcement of the future is programable speed limits that actively adjust the acceleration rate and top speed (via both throttle limit and braking) of a given vehicle within a given area. For example. who would argue with a 15-mph limit in school zones on school days? A few short steps to include this technology on every new vehicle (or even older ones) for the safety of all of us, everywhere... Easy to avoid specific data bandwidth issues. It was hard to progarm each vehicle you say? How about roads (any area actually) that sends speed limits to vehicles passing through via RFID. Want to slow down kids in front of your house, no problem - get a court-limit imposed! Who would argue with that geat idea too? Do you really think that we would always be free to W O T ? That's what the smokers thought, the red-meat eaters thought (oh wait! that's the latest fad, sorry). Pay attention to the cultural trends. Think about Afgan, its about 20-200 years behind in technolgy, depending on application. But we were there at one time or another. This is relatively easy to do right now with current technology (trust me on this one). Just ask some transportation companies about how onboard computers on over the road tractor rigs are now and will be enhanced. I can't discuss my involvement with this project, but it does have an important and benign purpose. Sorry, its only Science fiction right ? Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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