fivepointohman Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 So I went ahead and took my manifold off to clean out the ever so discusting carbon and oil biuld up... it was amazing, my map sensor port was almost totally sealed, along with the FPR port.... The gaskets were leaking incredibly as I saw a trail of carbon and fuel leaking around the seals and into the valley. So needless to say 80 dollars later I had the the entire intake throttle body and EGR spacer completly acid dipped and blasted... Looks amazing now and oh so clean! put it together with all new gaskets and car fired up strong and throttle response is amazing! Now here is the info I was told at my local engine dino and biulder... He asked what fuel octane i was using.. I was using 93... He told me that was alot of the cause as to why it got this nasty... the 93 doesnt burn quick enough and thus we have loads of deposits. he recommends 89 max and even 87 for cleanest operation and performance. he states 93 looses HP. I played devils avocate with the whole knocking issues and valve damage from low octane , he said not a issue the ecm will adjust timing as needed... he also says my CAT is probably completly clogged with deposits as my intake was. makes sense as my exhaust smells as though there is no converter.. NO codes however... Either way a high flow cat was ordered weeks ago so it's not really an issue.. my intake valves looks spotless with literally no deposits... I wonder about the exhaust side... So what does everyone think of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 As you probably know, the GURU used to frequent this site. What you are seeing is perfectly normal, what is happening is that EGR gases are sucked into the intake and its condenses and settles creating that gunk / carbon you saw. It is perfectly normal and you can leave it be. Actually the guru CAUTIONED us against cleaning it out because if you use some sort of cleaner and it remains in the intake you can hydrolock the engine, and we have seen it happen. You can not get all of the cleaner out of the intake and it is sucked into the intake spontaineously and it goes directly to a cyliner. and BAM.. ROD out the side of the engine.. Its possible that cleaning the throttle body up, seals etc, helped you. OUR 96's are spec's for PREMIUM 91, but as he said the PCM will retard the timing if it senses knocking with lesser octane fuels.. I always use 89 with no problems, if I see 91 or 93 and I am going on a trip I use. Glad its running better for you, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 93 octane fuel does not burn slower or result in less power than 87 octane regular fuel. The octane rating is the resistance of the fuel to detonation. I guess in the literal sense of the definition, if the fuel was detonating, it would be "burning faster" but an engine that detonates would be running very poorly. As stated earler, the gook in the intake was from the ECR and/or PCV system - It is probably good that you cleaned the port that was plugged but the goo will probably be back in a short amount of time. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivepointohman Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 As you probably know, the GURU used to frequent this site. What you are seeing is perfectly normal, what is happening is that EGR gases are sucked into the intake and its condenses and settles creating that gunk / carbon you saw. It is perfectly normal and you can leave it be. Actually the guru CAUTIONED us against cleaning it out because if you use some sort of cleaner and it remains in the intake you can hydrolock the engine, and we have seen it happen. You can not get all of the cleaner out of the intake and it is sucked into the intake spontaineously and it goes directly to a cyliner. and BAM.. ROD out the side of the engine.. Its possible that cleaning the throttle body up, seals etc, helped you. OUR 96's are spec's for PREMIUM 91, but as he said the PCM will retard the timing if it senses knocking with lesser octane fuels.. I always use 89 with no problems, if I see 91 or 93 and I am going on a trip I use. Glad its running better for you, Mike Agreed.... that hydro lock is exactly why i didnt clean it on the car etc... I had it dipped and heat treated at the shop and left it off for a week, so it was perfectly dry.... I am happy with the job.... Here are some pics! http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images0...3041a95e651.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivepointohman Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Also, I love the fact that with the coolant bypass modification done to the throttle body you can actually touch the throttle body when the engine is hot and the incoming charge of air is nice and cool and not super heated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Also, I love the fact that with the coolant bypass modification done to the throttle body you can actually touch the throttle body when the engine is hot and the incoming charge of air is nice and cool and not super heated... Why would you bypass it? It's there for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Nice Photos. Do you have one with the intake back in place? You did a nice job on the throttle body, did you clean it, and what did you clean it with? Did you reuse the intake gaskets? How did they look to you when you took them off? Given you have a 96, I am interested in what you found, good job Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivepointohman Posted March 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Nice Photos. Do you have one with the intake back in place? You did a nice job on the throttle body, did you clean it, and what did you clean it with? Did you reuse the intake gaskets? How did they look to you when you took them off? Given you have a 96, I am interested in what you found, good job The coolant bypass is there to act as a choke, like in our older carburated cars. It heats the incoming air when it it cold out... Since I drive my car only in the summer i dont need to heat the in coming air, plus hot air means less power and detination... So it is a plus... some also say it is used to looses deposits in the throttle body, I clean mine constantly so it's not an issue. Yea I have to take a photo of it completely on there... All the components were cleaned at the shop with a acid dip, but I painted them all up afterwards... the intake gaskets were beyond worthless, the gasket material was lower then the surrounding framework of the gasket itself so meaning there was no gasket... they car ran strong anyways, but outside dirt oil and debris sealed up the runners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 The coolant bypass is there to act as a choke, like in our older carburated cars. It heats the incoming air when it it cold out... Since I drive my car only in the summer i dont need to heat the in coming air, plus hot air means less power and detination... So it is a plus... some also say it is used to looses deposits in the throttle body, I clean mine constantly so it's not an issue. It doesn't act as a choke. The PCM enriches the fuel mixture to accomplish that. It is there to prevent the TB from icing up. Since there is no venturi like a carb, it is not as likely though. As far as seasons go, I've had CARBS ice up at 50 degrees when it was moist (raining) and I had the carb heat intake tube bypassed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 You know throughout this thread you are listening to OTHER PEOPLE Now here is the info I was told at my local engine dino and biulder... He asked what fuel octane i was using.. I was using 93... He told me that was alot of the cause as to why it got this nasty... the 93 doesnt burn quick enough and thus we have loads of deposits. he recommends 89 max and even 87 for cleanest operation and performance. he states 93 looses HP. I played devils avocate with the whole knocking issues and valve damage from low octane , he said not a issue the ecm will adjust timing as needed... he also says my CAT is probably completly clogged with deposits as my intake was. makes sense as my exhaust smells as though there is no converter.. some also say it is used to looses deposits in the throttle body, I clean mine constantly so it's not an issue These statements are DEAD wrong. The 96 takes PREMIUM FUEL, that is 91 octane. 89 CAN be used, and the PCM will retard timing as needed but its NOT correct that the highest octane that should be used is 89.... I USE 89 all the time and my intake looks like a TAR PIT... He didnt even know the CORRECT reason for the carbon goo.... its HARMLESS..... Who is going to install the CAT, him? This has NOTHING to do with your CAT at all.. There are a lot of bias mechanics out there that THINK they know everything and they are giving out DIS information. I think your JOB was good, I think the INFORMATION you were given is ERRONEOUS! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivepointohman Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 You know throughout this thread you are listening to OTHER PEOPLE Now here is the info I was told at my local engine dino and biulder... He asked what fuel octane i was using.. I was using 93... He told me that was alot of the cause as to why it got this nasty... the 93 doesnt burn quick enough and thus we have loads of deposits. he recommends 89 max and even 87 for cleanest operation and performance. he states 93 looses HP. I played devils avocate with the whole knocking issues and valve damage from low octane , he said not a issue the ecm will adjust timing as needed... he also says my CAT is probably completly clogged with deposits as my intake was. makes sense as my exhaust smells as though there is no converter.. some also say it is used to looses deposits in the throttle body, I clean mine constantly so it's not an issue These statements are DEAD wrong. The 96 takes PREMIUM FUEL, that is 91 octane. 89 CAN be used, and the PCM will retard timing as needed but its NOT correct that the highest octane that should be used is 89.... I USE 89 all the time and my intake looks like a TAR PIT... He didnt even know the CORRECT reason for the carbon goo.... its HARMLESS..... Who is going to install the CAT, him? This has NOTHING to do with your CAT at all.. There are a lot of bias mechanics out there that THINK they know everything and they are giving out DIS information. I think your JOB was good, I think the INFORMATION you were given is ERRONEOUS! Agreed it's everyones opinion..... I have bypassed the heater hoses on both my cadillac and my mercedes and have had no issues ever with better results in performance than before... So It's a matter of opinion.... No big deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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