PurePearl32 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hey guys. First time poster and not the smartest car guru in the world, so I apologize in advance if I seem a little dumb. So, about 2 weeks ago, my service engine soon light came on for about 10 seconds and went off. Gradually, the light came back on, about every 6-7 starts, for about 20 seconds, then went off. So I took it to Auto Zone and the guy said the code came back a code 43, and said that was an Electronic Spark Control failure and needed a new module. I bought the part and put it in...took about 30 minutes, as it is located just underneath the distributor (1 four prong plug-in, 1 two prong plug-in and 1 two silverish prong connector). I had Auto Zone clear the codes. Service engine light came back on after two days, reading the exact same problem, so I am stumped and left wondering if he was wrong on the code, if I didn't do something right, etc. I checked connections and everything got plugged in correctly. There were no directions in the box and there was a tiny packet of grease in there....I was not sure what it was used for and neither was Auto Zone so I don't even know if I screwed that up or what. As of now, it only seems to come on, in the mornings, when I leave for work and stays on for around 2-3 minutes. I run errands in the afternoons and evenings, and it has never come on. I notice no difference in performance, acceleration, idling, fuel economy, etc. If you have any ideas or suggestions, please help. Thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hey guys. First time poster and not the smartest car guru in the world, so I apologize in advance if I seem a little dumb. There were no directions in the box and there was a tiny packet of grease in there....I was not sure what it was used for and neither was Auto Zone so I don't even know if I screwed that up or what. Welcome to caddyinfo.com! The bottom of the Ignition Control Mudule MUST be covered with heat conducting grease it came with! Othetwise the module will overheat and fail. The IdiotZone has special Ignition Controle Module tester. My advice is that yo take the both modules to Advance Autoparts and ask them to test them. A month ago I did module replacement and our new Advance store had state of the art testing equipment! Make those tests. If one of the modules or both are good put it back with grease applied. Keep the other in the glove box just in case. By the way, you can diagnose your trouble codes right on your drive way. Turn ignition ON and press Warmer and OFF simultaneously until trouble codes show up on the Driver Info Center. Wright them down. Turn ignition OFF. You can repeat that procedure if you missed something. Post codes here. All those distributor-related connectors seem to losen up with age. Make sure everything is very tight. Lose connection can ruin an electronic component such as Ignition Control Module quickly and drive you nuts because it is very difficult to diagnose. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Decipher the codes you get here. http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/dtcobd1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurePearl32 Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hey guys. First time poster and not the smartest car guru in the world, so I apologize in advance if I seem a little dumb. There were no directions in the box and there was a tiny packet of grease in there....I was not sure what it was used for and neither was Auto Zone so I don't even know if I screwed that up or what. Welcome to caddyinfo.com! The bottom of the Ignition Control Mudule MUST be covered with heat conducting grease it came with! Othetwise the module will overheat and fail. The IdiotZone has special Ignition Controle Module tester. My advice is that yo take the both modules to Advance Autoparts and ask them to test them. A month ago I did module replacement and our new Advance store had state of the art testing equipment! Make those tests. If one of the modules or both are good put it back with grease applied. Keep the other in the glove box just in case. By the way, you can diagnose your trouble codes right on your drive way. Turn ignition ON and press Warmer and OFF simultaneously until trouble codes show up on the Driver Info Center. Wright them down. Turn ignition OFF. You can repeat that procedure if you missed something. Post codes here. All those distributor-related connectors seem to losen up with age. Make sure everything is very tight. Lose connection can ruin an electronic component such as Ignition Control Module quickly and drive you nuts because it is very difficult to diagnose. Thank you for your response! When I follow that procedure, I get a -00 on the display....is this a good or bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurePearl32 Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Decipher the codes you get here. http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/dtcobd1.html According to that, my left oxygen sensor is running lean....oh dear, I'm so confused, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurePearl32 Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Decipher the codes you get here. http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/dtcobd1.html According to that, my left oxygen sensor is running lean....oh dear, I'm so confused, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hey guys. First time poster and not the smartest car guru in the world, so I apologize in advance if I seem a little dumb. There were no directions in the box and there was a tiny packet of grease in there....I was not sure what it was used for and neither was Auto Zone so I don't even know if I screwed that up or what. Welcome to caddyinfo.com! The bottom of the Ignition Control Mudule MUST be covered with heat conducting grease it came with! Othetwise the module will overheat and fail. The IdiotZone has special Ignition Controle Module tester. My advice is that yo take the both modules to Advance Autoparts and ask them to test them. A month ago I did module replacement and our new Advance store had state of the art testing equipment! Make those tests. If one of the modules or both are good put it back with grease applied. Keep the other in the glove box just in case. By the way, you can diagnose your trouble codes right on your drive way. Turn ignition ON and press Warmer and OFF simultaneously until trouble codes show up on the Driver Info Center. Wright them down. Turn ignition OFF. You can repeat that procedure if you missed something. Post codes here. All those distributor-related connectors seem to losen up with age. Make sure everything is very tight. Lose connection can ruin an electronic component such as Ignition Control Module quickly and drive you nuts because it is very difficult to diagnose. Thank you for your response! When I follow that procedure, I get a -00 on the display....is this a good or bad thing? Never had anything like that... Yep, E043 is oxygen sensor code. Forst make sure your wiring to the sensor is good. Check also all your gronds including one on the engine block by the starter. As our Caddies age electrical gremlins start to kill the car... There is dignostics tree for that code. PM me your email address I will send a picture of the page from my Factory Service Manual. You should get one off eBay if you are going to keep that car and you do not want to pay big bucks to mechanics, "mechanics" or "advisers" from Autozone. Here you go: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1993-Cadill...lsQ5fLiterature The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Decipher the codes you get here. http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/dtcobd1.html According to that, my left oxygen sensor is running lean....oh dear, I'm so confused, lol. That will set the SES light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 The Fleetwood Brougham's onboard diagnostics are very different than the FWD Cadillacs. Simultaneously press and hold the OFF and WARMER side of the temp rocker. After the segment check, -00 will be displayed. That is the "pointer". Pressing OUTSIDE TEMP will toggle between the pointer and the trouble code. Use the FAN UP/DN to increment/decrement the pointer. Pointers -00 thru -04 contain the trouble codes. Current codes are two digits and history codes have three digits with a "1" as the first digit. The second and third digits are the trouble code. For example 32 would be a current code and 132 would be the same code although a history code. Your car does not have a left and right oxygen sensor... there is only ONE oxygen sensor on the '93 Fleetwood and it is in the left exhaust manifold. Pull the codes again from all four pointers and post them. Be sure to identify the pointer where the code was stored. If the code 43 was in pointer 00, display the code as 00-43. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I have a bad o2 sensor. My 96 Deville is different from your 93 fleetwood, but if you have a heated 02 sensor like mine, then it will act up only when it is really cold outside, and the car was sitting for a while. seems for me, the o2 sensor does not heet up fast enough, and it throws a code. I clear the code when I get this, and the car is fine. I am surprised your check engine light goes off immediately after the fault is fixed. mine would stay on for several ignition cycles. Welcome aboard!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurePearl32 Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Thanks for all the help everyone! I'm extremely grateful. A quick update.....my ESC module turned out to be fine so I pulled it, greased it up, and put it back in. I felt adventurous enough to tackle the O2 sensor and took about 45 minutes to change it out....thank you KHE for the information! I knew the I only had one O2 sensor but I did not know about the onboard diagnostics.....I actually found how to view my trouble codes, this morning, by fooling around and pushing the OUTSIDE TEMP button and code 43 came up so I was excited to find that out, but I'm really glad you gave me that extra info...I will store it for future use! I cleared the codes by unhooking the negative battery terminal and after following your instructions, I don't have any "history" codes at all....I'm not sure if that is normal or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Thanks for all the help everyone! I'm extremely grateful. A quick update.....my ESC module turned out to be fine so I pulled it, greased it up, and put it back in. I felt adventurous enough to tackle the O2 sensor and took about 45 minutes to change it out....thank you KHE for the information! I knew the I only had one O2 sensor but I did not know about the onboard diagnostics.....I actually found how to view my trouble codes, this morning, by fooling around and pushing the OUTSIDE TEMP button and code 43 came up so I was excited to find that out, but I'm really glad you gave me that extra info...I will store it for future use! I cleared the codes by unhooking the negative battery terminal and after following your instructions, I don't have any "history" codes at all....I'm not sure if that is normal or not. From your description, I am assuming that the code 43 was stored in pointer 00, correct? If so, that's the code for the knock sensor - there is a short or open in the circuit. The knock sensor is on the bottom side of the engine block (installed in the spot where a block drain plug would be) with a single wire. Make sure the wire is not touching any part of the engine or close to the ignition wires. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurePearl32 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Thanks for all the help everyone! I'm extremely grateful. A quick update.....my ESC module turned out to be fine so I pulled it, greased it up, and put it back in. I felt adventurous enough to tackle the O2 sensor and took about 45 minutes to change it out....thank you KHE for the information! I knew the I only had one O2 sensor but I did not know about the onboard diagnostics.....I actually found how to view my trouble codes, this morning, by fooling around and pushing the OUTSIDE TEMP button and code 43 came up so I was excited to find that out, but I'm really glad you gave me that extra info...I will store it for future use! I cleared the codes by unhooking the negative battery terminal and after following your instructions, I don't have any "history" codes at all....I'm not sure if that is normal or not. From your description, I am assuming that the code 43 was stored in pointer 00, correct? If so, that's the code for the knock sensor - there is a short or open in the circuit. The knock sensor is on the bottom side of the engine block (installed in the spot where a block drain plug would be) with a single wire. Make sure the wire is not touching any part of the engine or close to the ignition wires. KHE, thank you for your information...if I am standing in front of the car, facing the engine, where would I look? I know I need to go under the car, just am not sure what I am really looking for. Sorry, beginner question . Also, where did you get that information about the code 43 being stored in the 00 pointer? With the new ESC and O2 sensor, I'm still having the same service engine light, at the same time, with the same code, by the way. I hope I can get at this knock sensor myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 The proper way to view all components of the car is as if you were sitting in the driver's seat. So the driver's side would be the left side and the passenger side would be the right side of the vehicle. The knock sensor is on the right side of the engine block - you will need to crawl under the car and look for a pipe plug on the left side of the lower block (9/16" hex plug) and the knock sensor is on the right side - it is a round device - about 1-1/2" in diameter with a 7/8" hex on it if I remember correctly. The knock sensor will have one wire connected to it - mak sure the wire is not shorted to ground or opened. All this information is from the factory service manual - I have owned my Fleetwood Brougham since it had 15 miles on the odometer - I remove the knock sensor every two years to drain the coolant from the block. I concluded the 43 code was from the 00 pointer from your previous posts. Please verify that - if it is not, post what pointer the 43 code is stored under so we can properly diagnose the car. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurePearl32 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 The proper way to view all components of the car is as if you were sitting in the driver's seat. So the driver's side would be the left side and the passenger side would be the right side of the vehicle. The knock sensor is on the right side of the engine block - you will need to crawl under the car and look for a pipe plug on the left side of the lower block (9/16" hex plug) and the knock sensor is on the right side - it is a round device - about 1-1/2" in diameter with a 7/8" hex on it if I remember correctly. The knock sensor will have one wire connected to it - mak sure the wire is not shorted to ground or opened. All this information is from the factory service manual - I have owned my Fleetwood Brougham since it had 15 miles on the odometer - I remove the knock sensor every two years to drain the coolant from the block. I concluded the 43 code was from the 00 pointer from your previous posts. Please verify that - if it is not, post what pointer the 43 code is stored under so we can properly diagnose the car. So, hypothetically saying that if the knock sensor needs to be replaced (and not the wire), I will need a good sized pan to catch the coolant from the block when I remove the sensor? Yes, the code 43 is from the 00 pointer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Whenever I change the coolant on my Fleetwood, I just use my oil drain pan. Drain the radiator by removing the drain plug on the hose near the radiator and then pull the block drains. Failure of the knock sensor is rare - check the wiring, connections, etc. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurePearl32 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Whenever I change the coolant on my Fleetwood, I just use my oil drain pan. Drain the radiator by removing the drain plug on the hose near the radiator and then pull the block drains. Failure of the knock sensor is rare - check the wiring, connections, etc. Woooo, i must be getting better at this...I found it in about 4 seconds . It is a single blueish wire and it, along with the connections, look good except their a little gunked up with grease, same thing with the actual sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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