Scotty Posted June 1, 2004 Report Share Posted June 1, 2004 Ok, thursday, my AC began to blow warm, at the same time the whine I was having turning in to a SCRAPING on start up... SO in affect we found the WHINE.... Now, I can replace 1) the hub assembly, 2) the hub assembly and seal, or 3) the compressor. I must say that my compressor sounded metallic over the last few months. Is it true that when the bearing goes, it overheats the seal and i lost 134A?... Should the seal be replaced now because it was overheated? If I replace the compressor what precautions should I take? Could the metallic sound I was hearing cause metal particles to be throughout the system? I do not think that it failed, I think the seal went. Also, is it better to have an AC shop install the compressor so that they can blow out the system? What else should be replaced? Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 1, 2004 Report Share Posted June 1, 2004 Mike, I don't think you need to flush the system. If it makes you feel better, pull the orifice tube and look at the screen. If there is not any junk in the screen, you don't need to flush. The clutch gap may have been incorrect and that was the result of the scraping noise. You could replace the clutch and bearing and install a new shaft seal but you will need special tools to perform the repair. All of which are available at any decent auto parts store. The A/C shop will want to replace the entire compressor at the tune of $800-900. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2004 Kevin, I can get a FOURSEASON for about $300 or go for an ACDELCO unit, I think they are about the same cost. Considering that I would probably spend $200 with hub/clutch assembly and the special tools, do you think just replacing the compressor and having it recharged would be smarter? Thanks for your input, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 1, 2004 Report Share Posted June 1, 2004 Definitely go with the Delco unit over the "Four Siezens"!!!! For the additional $100, it probably makes sense to buy a Delco compressor and just swap it out. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2004 Thanks I will pull out the the orifice tube and look at the screen for filings. Do you happen to know where I find it? If I find filings what else must I replace? I finally found an AC shop that will evacuate my system and recharge it. Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 1, 2004 Report Share Posted June 1, 2004 Make sure the system is totally discharged. I believe the orifice tube is on the liquid line at the evaporator inlet. You will need to use new o-rings after disassembling the connections. Usually, the orifice tube pulls right out with needle nose pliers but sometimes, they break off and an extractor tool is needed to remove them. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2004 I just got a price of $361.79 plus $10 shipping for a new AC DELCO compressor, not bad. I just went to http://www.goodyearbeltsandhose.com/index.html and that Poly-V Gatorback serpentine belt looks impressive. $20 for a new idler pulley and with the new tensioner I bought already, my whinning days should be gone! While I am at it, I may just do the alternator at the same time and be done with it. Thanks for your help, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 Glad to help out. If you were in west Michigan, I'd vacuum the system down for you. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 I was told that if you change out the compressor you will have to put in a new dryer. Is this true? I also can not find anyone to just change out the bearings while it is still in the car. One guy told me that, "since I own a Caddy to just bite the bullit and get a new compressor." Another told me, "since I have a 110,000 miles on the car the compressor is definatly wore out." I guess I will just have to find a compressor. It is very hard to find a good air conditioner tech, almost as much as a good mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 I was told that if you change out the compressor you will have to put in a new dryer. Is this true? I also can not find anyone to just change out the bearings while it is still in the car. One guy told me that, "since I own a Caddy to just bite the bullit and get a new compressor." Another told me, "since I have a 110,000 miles on the car the compressor is definatly wore out." I guess I will just have to find a compressor. It is very hard to find a good air conditioner tech, almost as much as a good mechanic. I would reuse the accumulator provided the system was not left open for an excessive length of time or unless you were converting from R-12 to R-134a. If the refrigerant pipes must be left disconnected for an excessive time, plug the ends with rubber stoppers and you should be all set. Many times with chain store remans such as "Four Siezens", the compressor warranty will state that the warranty is not valid unless you purchase a new accumulator. In my opinion, that's to get out of a warranty claim when their poor quality reman fails....When the local Cadillac dealer quoted my Dad $1034 to replace the compressor in his '94 Fleetwood, there was not an accumulator on the parts breakdown. My '86 Park Avenue has 189,000 miles on the original DA-6 compressor....I had to replace a shaft seal three years ago - it still blows ice cold air..... I would not return to the guy who told you to bite the bullet and pay for a new compressor..... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 Mechanics these days only want to replace the component not fix the component. I guess that is why there are DIYers. Mechanics are driven by profit and I guess its more profitable for them to do the compressor, dryer and recharge than fix a hub bearing or replace the clutch assembly. I was feeling the same way you are, not being able to find a capable AC mechanic. Then I realized that many radiator shops are also AC shops. I was looking for Auto AC shops, which pretty much don't exist any more. Check your local radiator shops you may find them knowledgable in auto airconditioning. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95SLS Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 I went through this whole deal last year the same day I was to leave for vacation. I could not locate just the clutch like so many say. So I ened up withthe only unit for 200 miles, a AUTOZONE Rebuilt unit, whole compressor with clutch $189 I had no choice. I was going on vacation. I was also lucky that it was a Delco unit. Note: PICK UP THE RIGHT OIL FOR THE COMPRESSOR WHEN YOU GET IT VERY FEW COME WITH THE OIL IN IT! Ok, so I put it in It was not that bad, As far as I recall. Remove the belt, and be sure you have map to put it back on right. Take off tire on Pass side of car. Remove the panel inside wheel well towards front. (Acess to AC Comp) Jack up car and put safety stands under. Remove access panel on bottom af Radiator, hardly noticeable but it is there. Held in by a bunch of 10mm bolts. Also on Pass side. Makes it a lot easier just to remove Alt, You pick. Be sure system is empty as 134 is cold enough to give you frost bite or blind you. Clean the area of AC compressor. Use brake cleaner, they eviromentaly friendly type. Take the center bolt off the part that the lines come into. Have something real clan ready to cover it, even a spec of dirt can be bad. You will see the bolts that hold it on, one you get to from under wheel well the other from under the car. It bolts solid to the car, no adjustment. Be looking for spacers if it has any. Just make sure it don't or does and they get back to where they came from. Like the alt, it comes out in puzzel like fashon, seems that there is only one way out. Sort of tricky just don't force anything it will drop right out when ya face itthe right way. Ok, you have your new one. PUT THE OIL IN! Put the covers BACK on the holes! Now spin it a few times, you may need a strap wrench DONT mar it up with a metal one. Ya have to spin it around to get the oil in there and to free it up. When it turns fairly free, install it. Just put it up there, get it about right, First put the hoses back on (Think about some oil on the o rings and even new ones. I used the old ones no problem.) and then the bolts. This takes two people one with small hands, I used a kid. After it is all back in there, tighten everything up to spec. IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO REPLACE THE DRYER! I did not. I did not have time. My sytem was fine and sealed though when I started. Had it been open, I would have made time to replace it. If you knew HOW it worked, you'd know what I mean. Exposing it to atmosphere greatly reduces its function. Ok, Put that Alt back in, clean it up first as it will be covered in oil, shine the parts where the wires go on and be sure to put the boot back on the pos terminal. Re install the belt, inspect, if the old one looks bad, get a new one. You can now take it somewhere and have them vacume it down (A MUST) and charge or DIY. I had a friend that let me use his pump, So I sucked it down myself and charged it. If ya do charge it, and it allows, hold the can up side down, as more refigerant gets into the unit that way and faster. Some AC man told me not to do it that way but the directions on the can said to. Anyways, After I was all done, 3 hours later I had AC cold as Alaska in winter. Total Job took like 6 hours, 3 in labor, and 3 to suck down and charge. For some reason I had to do it 2 times, I did something wrong and had to pull it back out and re install. I think I forgot to put the oil in, no one mentioned that. By the way the low side on your car should be right in front of the radiator cap area. If everything is done right, you'll have cold AC and no codes. Interestingly enough, I hit a Deer 4 months after I had mine perfect and now it don't work since shop replaced condenser. So I told them they toasted my AC when they did it and they said "It must be the Compressor! I siad I aint going there! So, I had to pay a seperate shop to diagnose and they find,,,, what of course that they pinched the condensor when they put it in, now I have waited a month for Caddillac to get my new condensor. only AFTER I paid someone else to figure out that they screwed it up in first place. So, I'd just rather DIM than trust my car to a Cadillac dealer. My father in law works at the Caddy dealer as a paint man, he don't even let them work on his cars! And he works there! MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 WOW I bearly got home before, it started squeeling and I had smoke coming from under the hood, the compressor was smoking... I am about to eliminate the compressor with the short belt until I can fix it. Found a ton of acidy corrosion on my positive battery connection, took it apart and wirebrushed it. Will advise when i get the short belt on. All my other accessories sound ok all the bearings are smooth... Ill bet she is quiet as a mouse now, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 Well the AC/Delco 6K739 short belt worked, hard to get on, i would have liked it a bit longer but it worked... Bbobynski, I hope you were not involved with the fore-thought that someone may have to change the serp belt one day, what a bear to change and get at!!! LOL.... At least I took out my battery and cleaned the connections tons of white corrosion.. AMAZING, no whine all my noise is now gone, obviously proving that all my noise was related to the compressor. Whining, growling, and even a vibration through the car before, and now the car feels very very smooth and quiet. I plan to go to Scottsdale at the end of the month on vacation so most of my funds are headed in that direction but as soon as I can, I will order a new compressor, idler wheel, and serp belt and recharge this system... can't wait. I was idling it with the hood down and it actually sounded beautiful, I have not heard the engine that quiet since I have owned it. Thanks for the help! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted June 3, 2004 Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 I tried the short belt, but they did not have the 6K739, so I got the 60733 (1/8" shorter), it was too short. So I am going to try to get the 6K739 or one a little longer. Scotty keep us updated on your progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted June 3, 2004 Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 I didn't have any trouble installing 6K739; I left the power steering pulley for last. The hardest part was taking the measurements for determining the 10.x" shorter length! It's better to be on the short end of the range to assure adequate belt tension. ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Posted June 3, 2004 Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 When a compressor goes like you explain if the bearing cames apart rebuilding it will enable you to tell if filings made it into circulation. I would replace the oraface tube and completely evacute the system with compressed air then vaccuum. keep us up to date with your success. julio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 I didn't have any trouble installing 6K739; I left the power steering pulley for last. The hardest part was taking the measurements for determining the 10.x" shorter length! It's better to be on the short end of the range to assure adequate belt tension. Oh I got the 6K739 on OK, but I had to turn the tensioner all the way to the stop, and like you said, I put the power steering pump on last. I just felt the about a 1/2 longer would have helped a bit. I did not know that you estimated the size, great job, Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted June 3, 2004 Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 Oh I got the 6K739 on OK, but I had to turn the tensioner all the way to the stop, and like you said, I put the power steering pump on last. I just felt the about a 1/2 longer would have helped a bit. I did not know that you estimated the size, great job, Thanks, Mike I agree that a 1/4 to 1/2 inch longer would fit better. I to had the tensioner maxed out but could not get the shorter belt on. I could have gotten it on if I would have hit the starter but I was afraid that to put too much pressure on the pulleys. I will let you all know what size I find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Since you couldn't install the 73.3" belt, your estimate of a 1/2" longer is reasonable. 6K739 was the first belt I tried and it worked fine on a 1996 Concours; I wonder what the maximum length would be. ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 When a compressor goes like you explain if the bearing cames apart rebuilding it will enable you to tell if filings made it into circulation. I believe the pulley bearing is external to the refrigerant system. ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 You are right, I actually used a half inch dowel to guide the belt on to the crank because of the memory of your prior post. I probably am just whining... as I became an expert replacing the serp belt on my 91, I was amazed how little room there was in the 96... I once changed a serp belt on my 91 in the dark on the turnpike! It really isnt too bad, I have always had great hands! I have come to appreciate the 'northstar' system in that it is a self-contained unit, Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 To update everyone on my compressor saga, I finally got the correct belt to bypass the a/c compressor (6K739). The actual belt length is 74 1/2" according to the band around the belt. It went on fairly easy and there is no noise now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 To update everyone on my compressor saga, I finally got the correct belt to bypass the a/c compressor (6K739). The actual belt length is 74 1/2" according to the band around the belt. It went on fairly easy and there is no noise now. No Noise, Excellent! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiljak Posted June 12, 2004 Report Share Posted June 12, 2004 95SLS, I followed your handy "how to" post on changing a northstar ac compressor as my compressor went out on my 95 STS (125k). I followed your setps almost to a "t", but the only other thing I had to do was remove the housing that the oil filter connects to, which and also has lines going to the oil cooler radiator looking thing (not sure what it is called). I am curious if you were able to complete the job without taking it loose and if so how did you get the bolt holding the refridgeranctlines to the compressor? Just wondering. Anyway, my real question is, do you have to vacuum the systm down to get it to take the charge? James 1999 STS 65k 1995 STS 127k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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