carterautorepair Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Hey guys have a crazy problem the passkey light comes on and the car won't crank then it goes off after a few min. and it will crank fine. Went through the obvious changed the ign. switch,made a new key,put in a resister set to the ohm of the pellet in the key. Problem still persists,passkey light comes on,and goes off after a few min. and the car will start sometime days go by with no problem. Since the ign. and key is out of the equation i was thinking it would prbably leave the computer as the problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Have you pulled the DTC's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carterautorepair Posted October 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Have you pulled the DTC's? ok cheked again with snap-on computer. p-1626 theft sys fuel enable signal lost trouble shooter says>theft deterrent module sends as enable signal to pcm.If signal is not present,engine will start and die or not crank at all. So i couldn't come up with any diagrams to locate the module,when i tried to hunt one up the dealer say it's discontinued this item. Is there maybe some way around the module,so that it would help me to figure out if it's the module or pcm faulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 I am not sure if the FLEETWOOD is the same as I believe it is different, but there is a starter enable relay in the underhood relay center. I recently posted informtion for a 96 ETC here on the Starter Enable Relay, read through this post, and look for a bad relay or green corrosion: Starter Enable Relay Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carterautorepair Posted October 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 cheked to make sure but there was no starter enable relay in the underhood relay center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 It seems to me that the pass system in your case is removing power to the fuel pump, and in the ETC case it is removing power to the starter solenoid, but unless I am mistaken, the concept is the same. You really need to find a schematic of the Fleetwood PASS system if you don't have one. KHE is familiar with the Fleetwood and I hope he sees this, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carterautorepair Posted October 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 thanks,i had been looking for them on line but came up with nothing an tracing the wires is virtually impossibe without removing the entire dash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 thanks,i had been looking for them on line but came up with nothing an tracing the wires is virtually impossibe without removing the entire dash. Someone with the Fleetwood manual will help you here if you don't find it... it may take some time however. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 My guess is that the wires to the ignition lock cylinder have fatigued at the lock cylinder and are making intermittent contact. It will be intermittent at first but will eventually leave you stranded... You will need to get it to act up and when it does, locate the orange flat wire at the base of the colum - you need to remove the black panel under the dash. Unplug the wire and measure the resistance on the colum side of the harness. It should be roughly equal to the resistance of the pellet on the key. If not or if the meter shows infinite resistance, the wires on the lock cylinder are broken. You can also manipulate the lock cylinder with the key in to get it to act up. If that is the case, you can cut the harness on the colum side of the connector and solder a resistor across the cut end of the harness. You will need to determine the resistance of the key pellet and buy some resistors from Radio shack that equal the resistance of the key pellet and solder them across the harness on the ignition side of the harness to fix the problem. You might have to use a series or parallel combination to get the correct resistance. The other option is to replace the lock cylinder. I replaced the lock cylinder and had it re-keyed to accept my existing gold keys before I installed it. $10 for the locksmith plus the cost of the ignition lock cylinder ($70 I think). It was not that bad of a job - the airbags must be disabled, the steering wheel removed as well as the air bag coil contactor and the turn signal switch assembly. You will need a steering wheel puller and a lock plate compressor. Tie a string to the lock cylinder harness so it will be pulled up through the column when the cylinder is removed. The string can then be used to pull in the wires from the new cylinder. When I was finished with the job on my car, I used the old harness from the bad lock cylinder and a resistor to make a cheater cord so if the problem ever happens again, it won't leave me stranded. You can access the diagnostic codes from the climate control panel: Simultaneously press and hold the OFF and WARMER side of the temp rocker. After the segment check, -00 will be displayed. That is the "pointer". Pressing OUTSIDE TEMP will toggle between the pointer and the trouble code. Use the FAN UP/DN to increment/decrement the pointer. Pointers -00 thru -04 contain the trouble codes. Current codes are two digits and history codes have three digits with a "1" as the first digit. The second and third digits are the trouble code. For example 32 would be a current code and 132 would be the same code although a history code. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carterautorepair Posted October 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 ALREADY DID THE TRICK WITH THE RESISTER. IT STILL DOES THE SAME THING. THE CODE ON SNAP-ON SCANNER WAS. P-1626 THEFT SYSTEM FUEL ENABLE SIGNAL LOST. THEFT DETERRENT MODULE SENDS AN ENABEL SIGNAL TO PCM. IF SIGNAL IS NOT PRESENT,ENGINE WILL START AND DIE OR NOT CRANK AT ALL. WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE HAD SOME WIRING DIAGRAMS ON THE PASSKEY SYSTEM TO LOCATE THE MODULE AND TO SEE WHAT ALL WAS IN LINE. OR IF THERE IS ANYWAY TO BYPASS THIS ALLTOGETHER OR TRICK IT OUT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens96 Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Don't know the layout on the Fleetwood but if you have a starter enable relay it is under the plastic cover in the maxi fuse panel (not under the little fuse/relay access door ). Need to remove the whole cover from the fender. Not hard to do, just lift slowly moving the washer hoses and stuff to the side. Might need to remove the airbox if it is on the same side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 I was not aware that you tested the ignition lock wires with a substitute resistor. I believe the module is in the trunk but am not positive and I'll need to check the shop manual this evening for the location. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carterautorepair Posted October 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 OK,WILL BE WAITING TO SEE WHAT YOU COME UP WITH. I ALSO WILL LOOK UNDER THE COVER FOR THE STARTER RELAY. THANKS FOR THE HELP GUYS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I forgot that the '96 Fleetwood is OBD-2 and my car (a '93) is OBD-1... I am going to guess that the comparable OBD-1 code is code 33 which is Fuel enable short to ground/open. Disconnect the Central Control Module connector C1, turn the ignition to ON and measure the voltage at terminal B1 of the CCM "C1" connector. The voltage shuld be approximately 5 volts. If you have 5 volts at the dark blue wire, then check all connections to the CCM and clear the codes. If the code reappears, replace the CCM. If the code does not reset, check the connections by wiggling them. Also check the connections at the Engine control Module which is behinf the passenger side kick panel. With the ignition off, unplug the connectors at the CCM and the ECM and check for an open between ECM terminal D8 and CCM terminal B1. The starter enable relay is located behind the glove box mounted to the instrument panel support. The Central Control Module is in the trunk - left side behind the rear seat. You can see it when you open the trunk. Make sure the connections are clean and the grounds are intact. Check the circuit board foils on the CCM for cracks as well. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I forgot that the '96 Fleetwood is OBD-2 and my car (a '93) is OBD-1... I am going to guess that the comparable OBD-1 code is code 33 which is Fuel enable short to ground/open. Disconnect the Central Control Module connector C1, turn the ignition to ON and measure the voltage at terminal B1 of the CCM "C1" connector. The voltage shuld be approximately 5 volts. If you have 5 volta at the dark blue wire, then check all connections to the CCM and clear the codes. If the code reappears, replace the CCM. If the code does not reset, check the connections by wiggling them. Also check the connections at the Engine control Module which is behinf the passenger side kick panel. With the ignition off, unplug the connectors at the CCM and the ECM and check for an open between ECM terminal D8 and CCM terminal B1. The starter enable relay is located behind the glove box mounted to the instrument panel support. The Central Control Module is in the trunk - left side behind the rear seat. You can see it when you open the trunk. Make sure the connections are clean and the grounds are intact. Check the circuit board foils on the CCM for cracks as well. Nice Kevin Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carterautorepair Posted October 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 ok thanks alot will try it and let you know what i come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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