stokes Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 Filled up on route 17 in North N.J. on friday night.Tank was almost empty at the time.Everything was okay on my ride to upstate N.Y.,approx 100 miles.Left car sitting till Sunday a.m.When I tried to start it it started and stalled immediately,after about 3 tries it began to run erratically and stalled after a minute or two.Checked the diagnostic and got EO23 history.I cleared the code,but the symptoms persisted for about an hour or so then seemed to clear up just before I got on the highway,car ran trouble free for the 100 mile trip.No more error codes were set.After the car sat for about 3 hours I started the car and drove about 3 blocks when it stalled again,mildly hard start but it started and made it back no problem, no error codes this time.I am assuming I have some water in the tank and after the car sits the water settles to the bottom of the tank and into the fuel pump.My question is this-is it safe to use a dry gas additive?I have heard additives can cause problems with the wires in the fuel pump.Also, could the erratic idling cause an erroneous error code to be set(EO23 history)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 I have not had any trouble with Dry gas additive, I would put the recommended amount in. E023 - EST Signal Problem (EGR) - Check the electrical connection to the EGR valve. I would not worry about it, if it is just intermittent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 If E023 is an EGR code perhaps it's time to clean the EGR. I believe a sticking (open) EGR will cause the symptoms you report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 As far as the code goes, I'm with Larry. Do what he and the code is telling you. In the end it seems like it's cheap enough, particularly if you have never had it cleaned before. I know a little about gasoline too however, and the symptoms you describe could be from the fuel. There could be a couple three reasons for this. First, if you normally drive in an area that sells conventional fuel and have used it consistently for a long time, water can gradually accumulate in your tank. Normally this is kept out of the engine by sock filters and fuel filters in the system, and possibly a low area in the tank which allows for this accumulation. In this case you would never know if a little water was in your tank, it would stay out of the engine....until you filled up with ethanol (oxygenated) fuel. The ethanol would mix with the gasoline and not only add to the shear bulk of the poorly burning mixture, it would also allow it to pass through the sock and fuel filters more easily. Second, the station could have had a little water in their tank which would normally be supplied with conventional gasoline. Same scenario as the one above, but on a larger scale. They get a load of gas delivered with oxygenated fuel and here comes the water. Third, The station could have had a bad load of gas delivered to them. Even if it is normally selling ethanol "enriched" fuel, there is still the possibility of getting a load with "WET" ethanol. Ethanol must be kept very dry to serve as a motor fuel oxygenate because of its great affinity for water. Each load of pure ethanol delivered to the terminal must be checked for specific gravity and the results fall within very narrow guidelines to be acceptable. If somewhere along the way it comes in contact with water, that will be absorbed into the mix. Finally it gets to your tank causing the symptoms you describe. The good news is, you almost have the problem licked. I'd put in some Isoproply Alcohol at this point in the form of dry gas and work any remaining water out of the tank. Or you could drop the tank and drain the bad fuel out. Scenarios 1 and 3 are the most likely. You could go back or call the station to see if they had any other problems, maybe they'd foot the bill for cleaning your tank. Keep in mind that you will need to go back to that particular station for satisfaction. Going to another station of the same brand will not likely be effective. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokes Posted April 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Okay,heres an update.Cleaned the EGR,put in dry gas(isopropyl type).After car sputters for a while and stalls afew times it runs okay.Ran the diagnostic while it was sputtering and showed no code.Sometimes it will show EO23history.If I let the car sit for 3-4hrs the symptoms appear till car gets hot ,then all is fine.After getting the car running I drove around to burn off most of the gas,filled it up and got on the highway for some WOT action.Will let it sit about 5hrs and see if that helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Give us another update as soon as you can, it sounds like you may be dealing with a bad fuel pressure regulator from this last post. I don't think a bad FPR will set a code. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokes Posted April 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Went back to the car after about 5hrs-same situation,car starts runs at normal warm up revs for a few minutes then stalls.Try to restart and it starts hard and runs like it only has 2 or 3 cyls firing sputtering and then surging on and off for about ten minutes and then all is fine.JohnnyG's FPR suggestion sounds like it could be the culprit,going to the mechanic tomorrow,will post an update afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Hook up a fuel pressure gage to the fitting on the fuel rail and observe the pressure reading when the symptoms occur. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokes Posted April 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Dropped it at the mechanic this morning.Dont have the time or the neccessary jumpers and spec.tools to diagnose as per the manual. Left it at 8a.m.-at 3p.m he is still scratching his head.Will post back tommorrow if he figures it out.Problem is you only get the symptoms for about 10-15 mins. or so and then the car is perfect,then you have to wait about 2hrs or so to reproduce the symptoms and you still get no error codes except occasionally EO23 history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokes Posted April 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Got a call from the mechanic this afternoon.Said he put it on "his computer"and it tells him either TPS (which he says checks out okay) or a bad ground.The bad ground seems to be the likely culprit since the EO23 code the OBD is giving sometimes points to a bad ground in a couple of circuits.He spent the afternoon checking grounds and found one loose and another one actually severed under the air filter housing.Reconnected them and since we have to wait a few hours to get the vehicle to produce the symptoms,I'll have to wait till the morning to be sure.If all seems to be okay then,he wants it to sit for a few hours and try it again.I have to figure a severed ground connection would definately be a problem,hopefully the only problem.Keeping my fingers crossed.Thanks for all your input guys and I hope to be posting good news tommorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokes Posted April 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 After 6 days of pulling his hair out my mechanic called and said he is at his wits end.Wants to try changing the HEI module on the distributor tommorrow,if that dont do it,its off to the dealer.He already tried changing the TPS and a few other parts that the fault indicates.Good news is he is not charging for the parts he tried,says he will return them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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