water cooled alternator

[sevillebob]

The 1998 through 2000 Seville used a water cooled alternaotor. I understand that this feature was dropped because of water leaks. I have 2 questions.

Was it the alternator itself that was leaking or was it the plumbing going to and from it?

Also, will a later model (hot air cooled) alternator replace it without modification?

Bob

[sevillebob]

Calm down.

It may be an urban legend. I read it somewhere. I thought in a technical service bulletin. I may be mistaken on just where.

Anyway, thanks for the information. That's the kind of thing I'm looking for with this site.

My other question was not to know if the later model could replace it because I really wanted to do that. I just wanted to know if the much cheaper and much more plentiful air cooled versions will bolt right in just in case I've got a failure. I want to know what my options are so I don't have to buy the big bucks, limited availabity, water cooled one if I don't have to.

Thanks again,

Bob

[cadillac_man06]

Calm down.

It may be an urban legend. I read it somewhere. I thought in a technical service bulletin. I may be mistaken on just where.

Anyway, thanks for the information. That's the kind of thing I'm looking for with this site.

My other question was not to know if the later model could replace it because I really wanted to do that. I just wanted to know if the much cheaper and much more plentiful air cooled versions will bolt right in just in case I've got a failure. I want to know what my options are so I don't have to buy the big bucks, limited availabity, water cooled one if I don't have to.

Thanks again,

Bob

no the air cooled wont work it bolts up differently

[BodybyFisher]

Why are we answering posts that are over three years old? That post was from 1/26/2004

[sevillebob]

Why are we answering posts that are over three years old? That post was from 1/26/2004

[sevillebob]

Why are we answering posts that are over three years old? That post was from 1/26/2004

Thanks for the answer. I never got an answer to the original post.

I still have the car and was still wondering if the air cool alternator would bolt in.

Thanks again,

Bob

[BodybyFisher]

Wow better late than never Weird however, this is regarding a 2004 thread and the poster had not posted since July 06... all of a sudden he shows up to say thanks for the response... Coincidence?

[Ranger]

Why are we answering posts that are over three years old? That post was from 1/26/2004

Thanks for the answer. I never got an answer to the original post.

I still have the car and was still wondering if the air cool alternator would bolt in.

Thanks again,

Bob

Who'd of ever thought

[JimD]

I would try to find a Cadillac parts department that could and would put a water-cooled alternator and a later model year air-cooled alternator on the counter side-by-side. It would not take more than a few minutes to make a decision about the mechanical aspect of the deal. My bet would be the mounting arrangement is identical other than the plumbing.

And I might actually have to heed my own suggestion one day since my daily driver '98 Seville was born with a water-cooled alternator. But so far (159,000 miles), it remains a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

[sevillebob]

I would try to find a Cadillac parts department that could and would put a water-cooled alternator and a later model year air-cooled alternator on the counter side-by-side. It would not take more than a few minutes to make a decision about the mechanical aspect of the deal. My bet would be the mounting arrangement is identical other than the plumbing.

And I might actually have to heed my own suggestion one day since my daily driver '98 Seville was born with a water-cooled alternator. But so far (159,000 miles), it remains a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

I too own a same year (1998) Seville. Mine has about 105,000 miles. About 6 months ago I loosened the surpentine drive belt so that I could spin the alternator shaft freely to check the bearings for wear. They checked out good with none of the noise associated with a bearing getting dry or being warn. I was glad about that.

In my experiance with many alternators on many cars is that if the diodes don't blow, then the bearings will. It seams that Cadillac has solved the overheated diode problem by keeping the heat down with the water cooling.

I'm not too sure what the water temp is by the time it gets to the alternator, but trying to cool the alternator down with 200 degree air comming off the radiator doesn't seem like a good way to do it. And water is a much better conductor of heat than air is. . . . My Grand Am actually has a rubber boot snorkel that comes off the back of the alternator where the air goes in and it sucks cool air in from in front of the windshield. I still ended up burning up an alternator because it sucked in fuzz from a tree that I park under and the fuzz stopped the air flow. It now has a filter screen that I check and cleen.

Bob

[BodybyFisher]

You know I used to think the exact same thing, where is the logic of trying to cool an alternator in the summer with 220 degree water? It just does not make sense to me. If you do a search, you will see a thread that I posted to showing how alternator OUTPUT drops as the alternator gets hot...

[JimD]

Heat is certainly the enemy for all the components involved here; diodes, bearings/bushings, winding insulation. Generators (alternators if you wish) and motors can produce a lot of heat under high output or high load conditions. There would be many situations where 200 F coolant would actually "cool" the generator.

I would be interested in knowing where the coolant is circulated through the alternator. And I would rather study a diagram than have the opportunity to examine my alternator on the bench!

It is curious that Cadillac used (tried?) this approach for only a few years.

[sevillebob]

You know I used to think the exact same thing, where is the logic of trying to cool an alternator in the summer with 220 degree water? It just does not make sense to me. If you do a search, you will see a thread that I posted to showing how alternator OUTPUT drops as the alternator gets hot...

It looks like the water might actually be cooler than the air.

It looks to me after following the water flow, that the water for the alternator comes off the

cooler side of the radiator then it flows up to the top of the engine before going to the alternator.

Since this is the water that is already cooled by the radiator and it is about to keep the engine cool, it has to be cooler than the water that is aready in the engine that is soaking up heat before it goes to the radiator.

The air comming off the radiator has got to be at least as hot, but air is only going to be half as good for soaking up heat than air is and is

not going to do as good a job and not be as stable as the water as far as temperature goes.

On a hot day, that radiator air is going to be really hot especially if it's 100 degrees outside and the AC is going full blast. The AC fan will also be on high and the alternator will be taxed even more.

I think the water cooling idea was a good one especially since the diodes have a small heatsink for the air to soak up the heat from, but I heard that the problem was that they had leaks on some of them. I'm not sure if the leaks were in the alternator or the connections somewhere else in the flow, maybe where the water connects at the alternator?

Mine hasn't leaked yet.

Bob

[Ranger]

One would think that it was engineered so that the water (where ever it came from) was cooler than the alternator, which would indicate to me that those alternators get much hotter than I ever would have thought. Being that the design was dropped after such a short run would also lead one to believe that it was not as efficient as it was thought to be.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Sometimes you try different engineering approaches, and see what works. Yes, water cooling was complicated, but it could be that a different, more economical solution was reached for heat control or heat tolerance in the next generation alternators and so the cooling was no longer required. Not that the cooling was not a good idea, or did not work well.

Interesting that to keep the first generation of Li-ion batteries from overheating in the new hybrids that they plan to provide them with cooling flow as well. It is a well understood method of heat removal.

One of the things that held direct injection back for a while is that it was not as efficient as normal injection for some ranges. This was an engineering problem until a company simply started putting BOTH injector types in the engine, and using the appropriate one in the appropriate range. Not a cheap solution, except that it allows you to move forward to direct injection and beyond, which gives you these great, interesting options in added power, lower consumption, and lower emissions.

[sevillebob]

Sometimes you try different engineering approaches, and see what works. Yes, water cooling was complicated, but it could be that a different, more economical solution was reached for heat control or heat tolerance in the next generation alternators and so the cooling was no longer required. Not that the cooling was not a good idea, or did not work well.

Interesting that to keep the first generation of Li-ion batteries from overheating in the new hybrids that they plan to provide them with cooling flow as well. It is a well understood method of heat removal.

One of the things that held direct injection back for a while is that it was not as efficient as normal injection for some ranges. This was an engineering problem until a company simply started putting BOTH injector types in the engine, and using the appropriate one in the appropriate range. Not a cheap solution, except that it allows you to move forward to direct injection and beyond, which gives you these great, interesting options in added power, lower consumption, and lower emissions.

From what I understand, the water cooling worked and still works in my car with the original alternator at over 100,000 miles. Another poster has 169,000 miles with the original alternator. The problem was with water leaking not the method of cooling. . . I asked a Caddy mechanic which one was failing and he said they both fail. He said the water cooled alternator leaks sometimes.

If I had a choice, the water cooled one would be it. A lot more stable without big temp swings than with the air.

You have got a big heat sink with all that water. It doesn't fluctuate that much.

I'd like to know if they could be swapped and bolt up either way and you could just bypass the water.

Bob

[BUICK11]

I had the water cooled replaced on my 1999 SLS last December with 50k on the car. Was not leaking but was not putting out enough Amps. Fortunately it was under Major Guard warranty thus they had to use OEM replacement parts. All I can say it is a lot of work to replace it. something I would only want to do once.

Frank