cts motor in buick?

[joeb]

so the new buick replacement for the regal is going to have the cts motor? a front wheel drive cts i suppose. still it is a nice motor. twin cam, variable valve timing, all aluminum built. front drive is nice in the winter. now. if gm can finally make an all wheel drive sedan. that would be cool.

[JasonA]

Yeah, remember the days when Chevy, Oldsmobile, Buick, and Pontiac ALL had their own 350 cui. V-8 engines? I heard of lawsuits from then-new Oldsmobile owners in the late 1970s who got Chevy engines in their Cutlasses where there were supposed to be Oldsmobile engines. I don't know of those tales are true or not, but...

Caddy's been sharing engines for a long time. I think Cadillac's first fuel-injected engine (in the '75 Seville?) was actually an Oldsmobile 350 V-8 that had digital fuel injection on it.

[KevinW]

Caddy's been sharing engines for a long time. I think Cadillac's first fuel-injected engine (in the '75 Seville?) was actually an Oldsmobile 350 V-8 that had digital fuel injection on it.

I think the first instance was the use of Oldsmobile straight-8 engines in some LaSalles, but that was short-lived. One could argue that with the addition of the special MPFI intake manifold and associated hardware, that V-8 was transformed into a "Cadillac" 350. The EFI system was controled by a completely analogue ECU; injector pulse width was modified based on coolant and air temperatures and each bank of injectors was triggered by a Reed Switch in the distributor. Other examples of engine sharing include: the 5.7 L Olds V8 diesel from 1978-85; the 4.1 L Buick V6, late 1980 till '82; the 4.3 L Olds V6 diesel in 1985; the 5.0 L Olds V8 from 1986-90; Chev 5.7 L V8s from 1990-96 and 5.0 L V8s from 1991-92. I won't bother mentioning all the J-car stuff. Throughout all this, Cadillac has always had exclusive engines. This was diluted somewhat with the introduction of the 1995 Aurora, which I understand was supposed to have been a Cadillac model, and further diluted by the upcoming GXP, although the 300 and 320 hp Northstars are still Cadillac-only.

[franey]

THE LAWSUITS WERE TRUE ,AND THIS IS WHAT STARTED THE "GM MOTOR", WHICH MEANT THEY WERE ALL INTERCHANGEABLE FROM ONE LINE TO ANOTHER . THAT WAS THE END OF THE ROCKET V/8 AND ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALE BRANDS OF GM CARS TOUTING THE GREATNESS OF THEIR INDIVIDUALE LINE OF MOTORS. THE END OF ANOTHER BYGONE ERA.

[JasonA]

One could argue that with the addition of the special MPFI intake manifold and associated hardware, that V-8 was transformed into a "Cadillac" 350.

Us closet Oldsmobile fans would certainly disagree. The engine still had the relatively short stroke (3.385") that other small block Olds motors shared (the "Rocket" V-8) and the strong reliablility record of the bottom end. Swapping an Edelbrock intake and an MSD box onto your 350 Chevy doesn't a differet engine make -- it's still a Chevy. There are actually a few FI intakes running around that were developed for the very last Rocket V-8 (the Olds 307). Rumor has it Oldsmobile was trying to strengthen their bid to be the "corporate" V-8 (that the Chevy eventually "won") with fuel injection, but it never panned out in the production world. They actually had bosses at each intake port for a MPFI setup.

[Logan]

A version of the Catera/CTS Opel Saab engine is in the '03 Saturn VUE.

Now...Honda V6 engines are being used in the VUE. Basically being traded for some Isuzu diesel engines....

The Chevy engine in the Olds story is true.

[JasonA]

Now...Honda V6 engines are being used in the VUE. Basically being traded for some Isuzu diesel engines....

Ya, which makes them quick little buggers. I guy at work here test drove one and I went with him -- I was impressed. C&D estimated an AWD V-6 to do 0-60 in 7-flat.

The sales lady said that both the Honda engine and Honda transmission (5-sp auto) are imported from Japan...Oh, but the REST of the Saturn -- it's made in Spring Hill, Tennessee. Ever take a look under the hood of one of those new Vues? Looks like a squeeze job galore. The Honda's intake manifold is similar to the Northstar's in that it opens up at the rear of the engine (driver side). Now, it seems that the prudent thing to do would be to put the airbox also at the rear of the engine, like what's in our Cadillacs. But nah, with the Vue, they stuck it over on the passenger side and there's a big plastic black tube that runs up from the air box, across the whole engine, and then does a 180* turn down into the throttle body. Looks pretty funky. I can't believe it flows well, but they had to have a reason to put it there.

[KevinW]

Swapping an Edelbrock intake and an MSD box onto your 350 Chevy doesn't a differet engine make -- it's still a Chevy.

Rumor has it Oldsmobile was trying to strengthen their bid to be the "corporate" V-8 (that the Chevy eventually "won") with fuel injection, but it never panned out in the production world.

I did use quotation marks!! However, I would not equate an aftermarket intake manifold and ignition coil "upgrade" with a complete, factory-designed fuel system that likely took several years to engineer. The EFI 350 was available only on Cadillac models.

I don't think they ever stood a chance, given the production volume of truck engines, plus I think the Olds 307 was more expensive to manufacture. They would have also had to upgrade parts like the rear main rope seal.

[JasonA]

I don't think they ever stood a chance, given the production volume of truck engines, plus I think the Olds 307 was more expensive to manufacture. They would have also had to upgrade parts like the rear main rope seal.

I agree. I think the poor maintenance of Olds 350 diesels (which were available in many GM brands) contributed to a perceived poor reliability of Oldsmobile engines in general. I think the Olds V8s have many advantages over their counterparts, in both manufacturing and machining. They were probably more expensive to manufacture, but that's because they had a higher nickel content in the blocks, which made them stronger than their competitors. In fact, Olds never had a "4 bolt main" block simply because it wasn't needed (or deemed needed at the time). They were strong engines. The distributor doesn't pass through the intake manifold, so if you have to have the intake off for any reason, you don't have to screw around with the ignition system. I also like the net build design in the valvetrain -- no lash to adjust. With with the oversquare design (3.8 x 3.385), you could really spin them if you tuned for high speed power.

The new roller cams available in the 1985 and later 307s, combined with the swirl port heads, really turned them into smooth engines. Almost 260 pounds of torque at something like 2000 rpm. Very torquey engines. And through all that, most of the technology was 30 years old (dating back to the '64 330). If they were given some R&D dollars, I think they could have made that into a really fantastic engine, and maybe even have "won the bid" to be the corporate V8.

Incidentally, I never had a rope seal leak on my 307, and when I built my 403, I put an OEM-style rope seal in there and didn't have any problems. I agree that a one or two piece rubber seal would be better, but I think the rope seal serviced well.

(P.S. Sorry to turn this into an Olds V8 thread.)

[KevinW]

Incidentally, I never had a rope seal leak on my 307, and when I built my 403, I put an OEM-style rope seal in there and didn't have any problems.

Mine have never dripped either, but I was thinking in terms of mass production; a one piece seal can be installed much more quickly and with less room for error. I know of an Olds 350 that has leaked from new (November 1976), but at nearly 250,000 miles, there's still no reason to tear apart the engine.