NeckMeats Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Hi all - this is my first post. I have 1992 Eldorado with 90k miles on it. I have never had a single mechanical issue with car until recently. A few weeks ago I noticed very loud noises coming from the right/passenger side of the engine (similar to a fast knocking with grinding). I think I was able to identify that the noise was coming from my powersteering pump (loose bearing?). Shortly thereafter I noticed a large amount of coolant releasing to the street when I would turn the car off. Most of the coolant seemed to be spilling out from the lower radiator hose so I replaced it. It did not fix the problem. The dash display would then register 238 degrees F after running for about 5 minutes and would dump more coolant when the car was shut off. My latest diag was looking at all hoses and pumps while the car was running. After about 5 minutes I noticed small sprays of coolant coming from the water pump cover that would intensify as the tempurature rose. A friend of mine says that the power steering pump issue and the water pump cover leak is probably related and may be due to the belt being too tight(?). I don't believe the water pump is broken though; coolant is still being pulled into the engine from the resivour. I will attempt to replace the water pump gasket and power steering pump this weekend - but my questions are a) should I replace the waterpump and do I have anything else to worry about? Is it feasable that a tight belt could have caused this problem or is there something else more major contributing to the issue? Any insight would be helpful. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 There is no way to over tighten the belt, the tensioner maintains pressure, as a matter of fact the tensioner will provide less tension over time as it weakens. Check the tensioner pulley to make sure its still good anyway. If there is an idler pulley (I can't remember) check that also. Obviously make sure its the right belt, but they are pretty tight The waterpump on the 4.9 does not give much warning like they did in the old days. I had about 3 pumps go on my 91 and they go quickly. Replace the pump with a NEW one not a rebuilt. If the pump is leaking replace it. The pump in my opinion lasts about 40K to 50K. Check around the pump for leaks it might be a loose pump or bad gasket, but if its leaking from the shaft replace it, I would be very surprised that it would last a week leaking... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Here is the belt routing and the front view of the engine, there is an idler pulley to the southwest of the alternator.. Ignore the red circle that was for something else Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeckMeats Posted February 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Thank you very much for the information. I am ordering a new pump right now. Do you also have any insight into the power steering pump issue or is it just because the darn thing is 14 years old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 The power steering pump is hard to diagnose here. Does is sound like air is being ingested creating a hydraulic whine or moan? If a bearing went bad you would blow the seal quickly. I had a pump on my 91 spontaneously blow out its front seal and blow fluid everywhere. You must check for air being sucked in on the return side. There are o-rings on a part called an adaptor that might be sucking air, here is a photo of the adaptor, you need a special tool to remove it, Mike If you replace the pump make sure you replace the adaptor in the bottom of this picture, as you can see there are a few orings. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeckMeats Posted February 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 The pump doesn't whine - it's just making a very loud "rattle". Also, it seems to visibily vibrate a little more than expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 The pump doesn't whine - it's just making a very loud "rattle". Also, it seems to visibily vibrate a little more than expected. Sounds like a pump bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeckMeats Posted February 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 That's what my original assumption was. About how long can this thing run like that until it bombs? Thanks for all of your help guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Neck, I would address the watrer pump first. As BBF noticed, it can go south really fast. You might want to watch the water pump area with engine running, just increase RPMs holding the throttle lever up to some 2500 RPM. Increased RPM will increase the pressure and you'll see leaks. A good place to buy OEM parts are gmpartsdirect.com or rockauto.com. You also can ask a local Cadillac dealer to match their price. Sometimes they do. Good luck, and keep in touch. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Napa Auto Parts sells a new water pump also Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 That's what my original assumption was. About how long can this thing run like that until it bombs? Thanks for all of your help guys Hard to say. It could leak for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 That's what my original assumption was. About how long can this thing run like that until it bombs? Thanks for all of your help guys Hard to say. It could leak for a long time. I assume you are speaking about the power steering pump noise. Exactly, that is why I didn't respond to that question, it's anyones guess. I hear a noise, I investigate and I fix it. Doing that will avoid being stranded with no serp belt someplace at the most inconvenient time. Made sure its the power steering pump before you replace it, on the NS, it can sound like the power steering pump and it will be the AC hub.. Now the water pump, if it makes noise or leaks?, head for the shouder! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 There is no way to over tighten the belt, the tensioner maintains pressure, as a matter of fact the tensioner will provide less tension over time as it weakens. Check the tensioner pulley to make sure its still good anyway. If there is an idler pulley (I can't remember) check that also. Obviously make sure its the right belt, but they are pretty tight The waterpump on the 4.9 does not give much warning like they did in the old days. I had about 3 pumps go on my 91 and they go quickly. Replace the pump with a NEW one not a rebuilt. If the pump is leaking replace it. The pump in my opinion lasts about 40K to 50K. Check around the pump for leaks it might be a loose pump or bad gasket, but if its leaking from the shaft replace it, I would be very surprised that it would last a week leaking... I noticed as soon as one replaces an original water pump on 4.9 one just keeps changing them (3-4 times). What's the problem? Not OEM parts? Mine is original so far. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 I agree with you Adallak, I had this discussion with Bbob, and he said the same thing, its possible that the bearing and seal are stronger on an OEM pump compared to a new pump from NAPA... I guess its the old, "you get what you pay for" at work here, a NAPA pump is about $75 to $100, and a GM OEM is what?, my guess is $200 or more.. But you are right, I changed mine every 40,000 miles like clockwork, bbob throught that was too frequent. I even made sure my coolant concentration was NOT more than 50/50 thinking that the silicates were deteriorating the seal, allowing coolant to enter the bearing and then washing out the grease, causing pre-mature failure... But you bring up a very good point.. Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 I agree with you Adallak, I had this discussion with Bbob, and he said the same thing, its possible that the bearing and seal are stronger on an OEM pump compared to a new pump from NAPA... I guess its the old, "you get what you pay for" at work here, a NAPA pump is about $75 to $100, and a GM OEM is what?, my guess is $200 or more.. But you are right, I changed mine every 40,000 miles like clockwork, bbob throught that was too frequent. I even made sure my coolant concentration was NOT more than 50/50 thinking that the silicates were deteriorating the seal, allowing coolant to enter the bearing and then washing out the grease, causing pre-mature failure... But you bring up a very good point.. Mike AC Delco water pump kit with gasket is $124.38 at http://www.autopartsgiant.com (I believe they offer free shiping). Looks like the same part without gasket is $72. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Not a bad price, I would do that! Maybe the high price I got was directly from the dealer Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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