BodybyFisher Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Hi All, I'd like to thank everyone for getting me on the right track with my Seville. I spent about 6 hours reading past posts and links relating to the N*, and about 2 hours under the car. What an eyeopener. I now feel pretty embarrased of how little I knew about a car I've been driving for the past 9 years. I guess I enjoyed the power, luxury and the smooth operation so much I didn't really give a hoot about the nuts and bolts of how it was accomplished. I just drove the tires off it. After reading all the tech articles on this motor I am amazed at it's stock output and the computer integration of all the systems that make up the "package". Being a hotrod/performance enthusist I've built many rods and customs. Of course they all used the typical powerplant/tranny combos and no ECU's. Now that it's time to do some work on the STS, I have gotten excited about the capabilities of the N*. I do apologize to those of you who have been around the block whith the ins and outs of these cars for my ignorance on a couple of my earlier posts. Thanks for your patience during my break in period concerning both the modification of these cars systems, and to the site. I can truly say I'm getting hooked. Thanks, Joe Glad to hear it Joe, I am also amazed by this system.. The more you dig into it, the more amazing it is. Even more incredible his how GM has matured and improved this Northstar System over the years. I had a 91 4.9 and knew NOTHING about the NS, never apologize for not knowing, this engine system is so innovative and different that its necessary to relearn a lot of what we took for granted. Glad you are hooked, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbuc Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Holy Crap! Mark, that's a tight fit. I can see why some *cough* Modifications were needed. Looking at it though, did you branch off the Y section in the back and run hose up to the front, or did you take the front and rear and run them seperately to the front? I bet you could have removed the Crossover if there was enoguh room to simply run a pipe 90 degrees to the turbo. Maybe there just isn't enogu room for even that though....Keep up the good work, and keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK 99STS Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Holy Crap! Mark, that's a tight fit. I can see why some *cough* Modifications were needed. Looking at it though, did you branch off the Y section in the back and run hose up to the front, or did you take the front and rear and run them seperately to the front? I bet you could have removed the Crossover if there was enoguh room to simply run a pipe 90 degrees to the turbo. Maybe there just isn't enogu room for even that though....Keep up the good work, and keep us posted. We ran seperate pipes from the front and rear bank under the cradle to the front and merged them right before the turbo. We just cut the crossover and left it in there since there is no way of getting it out. You can't even see it as we cut it at the brace. We had all piping just tack welded so it is out right now getting fully welded. I'll get more detailed photos later. It's amazing that every step of this project has been a hurdle to overcome primarily because you have absolutely no room, but we have made it work squeezing every 1/8" here and 1/4 '' there. We completed the fuel system last night. Had to be completely redone. I now have an actual racing fuel system capable up to 800hp. Put in a Walboro 255 in the tank, Motoblue fuel rails made for Mustang GT mod motors(it lines up with the injectors pefectly) 42lb/hr injectors, Aeromotive boost referenced fuel pressure regulator, braided AN lines and fittings. This thing is looking AWESOME. After talking with a lot of people and based on my dyno results from before the project, we are estimating an increase of 120-150hp at THE WHEELS. I'm pumped. Can't wait to fire her up as we are getting closer each day. MARK 99STS TURBOCHARGED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 I can't wait to see this. 150 HP at the wheels is about 440 HP gross? Coincidentally isn't that what the supercharged NS in the V's puts out? So all of this cost $500? :lol: Not bad.... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadiKing Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 I can't wait to see this. 150 HP at the wheels is about 440 HP gross? Coincidentally isn't that what the supercharged NS in the V's puts out? So all of this cost $500? :lol: Not bad.... Hey Body! I believe if you look, the V's have been upgraded to 469 hp! 440 was just to get our interest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Wowie, we are getting into the rarefied air of AMG.... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolai Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Hey Mark, I love your work. I'm very glad to see someone with some actual experience with the northstar, instead of coming off like a keyboard warrior. Anyway, can you tell me what you're doing for fuel? I'm working on a remote mounted turbo setup, mounted at the back where the y-pipe is before the mufflers. Going to see if some "massaged" tubing will clear enough to get up to the throttle body. Any help or insight you can give would be wonderful. I'm only going to run 5-6 psi, with a smaller turbo to reduce the lag as much as possible. Thanks, Nikolai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Mark, when you get a chance, could you give us a rough idea as to what you think you will spend when this project is completed... Thanks, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Mark, when you get a chance, could you give us a rough idea as to what you think you will spend when this project is completed... Thanks, Mike Yes Mark I'm amazed at what you've been able to accomplish for $500. We are ALL interested in what Mark is doing and by the pure nature of us all being on this discussion board I suppose that makes us keyboard warriors as well. Including you too Nicky. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK 99STS Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I'm working on a remote mounted turbo setup, mounted at the back where the y-pipe is before the mufflers. I assume your talking about Squires turbo that is mounted in the rear. I talked to them and they will sell you the 'basic " package for a generic setup as they don't have a specific application for Cadillacs. This does not include any fuel modifications,ie: rails, injectors, plugs, higher flow pump, adjustable pressure regulator. lines and fittings. Also not included is the piggyback computer system you will need to control the fuel. You will also need a bigger MAF as the stock one will max out because of the increased air flow from the turbo. I think some negatives of their system are: 1) the air intake is under the car & subject to water and dirt no matter what they say. 2) you need an oil pump for the return line to get it back from the turbo to the pan. If it fails for any reason, your hosed. Most systems are gravity return. 3) The MAF has to go on the inducer(intake) side of the turbo as most are on the pressure side. This is called a draw thru vs. a blow thru. This is necessary on our cars because there are no fuel tables we can use like LS1 edit or other after market programs use when the MAF maxes out. If the MAF is on the pressure side it will max out and you have no way to control the fuel and then your screwed. How would you put the MAF at the intake of the turbo and run wiring to it?? 4) They claim no turbo lag. If the system is sized properly, and you have someone that knows what they are doing, you will not have lag. I would think theirs would have more lag given the distance of the pressure piping and not knowing the specifics of our cars. I'm sure there are a list of other things that I forgot, but these are the basics. The biggest and most important thing is to find someone to put all this together for you who understands the computer and the piggyback and is familiar with the specific application for a cadillac. What my guy and I have determined is that there is no way that this could be done as a kit that could be sold and someone else hook up due to the uniqueness and specific problems our cars present. And this is just for 98-99 as I assume other years have other issues that mine does or does not have. He and I would be willing to install a complete package for someone, but they would have to bring the car to us to have it done or pay for consulting and or travel time. Regarding the cost, it is still to early as I have been doing half the work with him and his knowledge so I don't know exactly what he would charge for the complete setup as we have not determined that yet but a guess would be in the neighborhood of 8-10,000 for all parts and labor, including tuning and dyno testing. Just a guess right now. Keep in mind that you could save by not going all stainless and go with hard lines instead of AN lines and fittings. MARK 99STS TURBOCHARGED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Thanks Mark, as I noted in my very first post in this thread, you are THE source on this TOPIC! You are the man at this moment as far as I am concerned in terms of 'tuning' < a huge understatement please don't be offended! . Thanks for your input and experience on this topic, especially the COST, OUCH.... Thanks Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Thanks for your input and experience on this topic, especially the COST, OUCH.... Thanks IMO $10K for what he is trying to do and actually achieving is an amazingly cheap number. Don't forget he is basically re-gigging his whole fuel/computer system on his own... Custom headers, turbo system, exhaust, intake, traction management, etc. etc. etc. I would guess that like some of my automotive projects... Mark has seriously discounted his own personal time/effort... I don't think that any tuner-shop would attempt any such project for anything less than $25,000. Mark you are da-man! Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Onyx, OH I understand..... I say OUCH.... because $10K is what I spent on my car.... And I further say OUCH because, the original poster was talking about tuning for $300 - $500, but you are right, original R&D like this? The sky is the limit.... Mark is the new guru! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolai Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I think you mis-understood what I meant by tuning. I was mearly speaking of a computer tune, just software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Nope, I understood fully what you wanted to do. Our styles clashed that is unfortunate, but, now you understand that a simple firmware/computer tweak/crack is not possible and it's not related to a lack of creativity or ingenuity, that there is more involved than that. I hope you can see that now thanks to Mark. Hey if I could, I would like to do simple things like to get my COOLING FANS to come on earlier... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK 99STS Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I think you mis-understood what I meant by tuning. I was mearly speaking of a computer tune, just software. Nikolai, As we have been talking here it would be great if you could adjust, reprogram, flash 'Tune" these computers, but you can't because GM won't allow it. I wish I could go in and make a few simple software changes as it would make my life a lot easier right now regarding the turbo project. MARK 99STS TURBOCHARGED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlthbmr Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 And to think, I was going to just fab up a set of headers "no problem". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK 99STS Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 And to think, I was going to just fab up a set of headers "no problem". Joe, You could probably make the headers with your experience, the problem is installation and routing new exhaust. Just no room. Actually the stock manifolds aren't that bad if you look at them. If you are going to have the motor out I would probably clean up the stock manifolds and get a free flowing exhaust. MARK 99STS TURBOCHARGED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 If you are going to have the motor out I would probably clean up the stock manifolds and get a free flowing exhaust. Is there a lot of slag inside the stock exhaust manifolds? Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolai Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Ok, well here's a question. Has anyone thought about using a MAF from another vehicle? If they top out so easily, would this be a suitable solution? Also, does anyone have a picture of the y-pipe collector that is so restrictive and has anyone attempted ot make a smoother one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 This is for a Deville (but I think the down-pipes are the same), and its not a photo, but this shows that maybe its possible to fabricate a new pipe for the front bank that is full size (circled pipe).... Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK 99STS Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 If you are going to have the motor out I would probably clean up the stock manifolds and get a free flowing exhaust. Is there a lot of slag inside the stock exhaust manifolds? Actually the stock manifolds were very clean and surprisingly flowed very well per the guy that did my heads, at least on mine and I would not invest in headers. Ok, well here's a question. Has anyone thought about using a MAF from another vehicle? If they top out so easily, would this be a suitable solution? Also, does anyone have a picture of the y-pipe collector that is so restrictive and has anyone attempted ot make a smoother one? I am using an LS-6 MAF off a Z-06 Corvette only because the stock MAF will max out when you add more air flow. The stock MAF will never max out unless you add a turbo or supercharger. The y pipe is not the problem. It is the pipe that goes from the front bank and snakes under the engine and over the tranny to meet the back bank and go into the y collector. That pipe is crushed to be able to fit under and over. Sorry Mike but nothing bigger would fit as we investigated that option when I had the motor and tranny out. There is absolutely no room. MARK 99STS TURBOCHARGED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 It is the pipe that goes from the front bank and snakes under the engine and over the tranny to meet the back bank and go into the y collector. That pipe is crushed to be able to fit under and over. Sorry Mike but nothing bigger would fit as we investigated that option when I had the motor and tranny out. There is absolutely no room. Ya, I've noted that pipe each time I've changed my oil, etc... On the "under" part you could probably live with the loss of ground clearance... on the "over" part you're screwed... Say Mark, I hope that when you finish your turbo project you share the "how to" on your web site... Or at least write a book about it... If you do... I'll buy a copy! Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolai Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 If you are going to have the motor out I would probably clean up the stock manifolds and get a free flowing exhaust. Is there a lot of slag inside the stock exhaust manifolds? Actually the stock manifolds were very clean and surprisingly flowed very well per the guy that did my heads, at least on mine and I would not invest in headers. Ok, well here's a question. Has anyone thought about using a MAF from another vehicle? If they top out so easily, would this be a suitable solution? Also, does anyone have a picture of the y-pipe collector that is so restrictive and has anyone attempted ot make a smoother one? I am using an LS-6 MAF off a Z-06 Corvette only because the stock MAF will max out when you add more air flow. The stock MAF will never max out unless you add a turbo or supercharger. The y pipe is not the problem. It is the pipe that goes from the front bank and snakes under the engine and over the tranny to meet the back bank and go into the y collector. That pipe is crushed to be able to fit under and over. Sorry Mike but nothing bigger would fit as we investigated that option when I had the motor and tranny out. There is absolutely no room. Would there be any benefit to using one on an N/A modded Northstar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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