Phillip Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 The front end of my 96 STS has started car howling at speeds ranging from 30 to 90 kph. At full highway speed it is reasonably quiet. I suspected tires, but I inspected them and rotated them front to back and the noise persists. It is not dependent of engine speed, so my next suspicion was wheel bearings. I jacked the car up and checked them but I could not find any unusual sounds or loosness but I can't imagine what else would make this kind of sound. How do you diagnose wheel bearing problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 The front end of my 96 STS has started car howling at speeds ranging from 30 to 90 kph. At full highway speed it is reasonably quiet. I suspected tires, but I inspected them and rotated them front to back and the noise persists. It is not dependent of engine speed, so my next suspicion was wheel bearings. I jacked the car up and checked them but I could not find any unusual sounds or loosness but I can't imagine what else would make this kind of sound. How do you diagnose wheel bearing problems? I had it also, I have replaced the hub bearing. To test is wait until you hear it, and then do a series of S-Turns, NOT IN TRAFFIC.... If the noise varies or goes away in one direction its a sign that you have a bad hub bearing. Once I replaced mine the noise was gone... Its not cheap for our 96's, it contains the speed sensor for the ABS system. I think it was $145 if I recall, here is a photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67coupedeville Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 On our old 1995 Chrysler LHS, the wheel bearing was shot on the driver's side front. Whenever you would turn the wheel a 1/2 revolution back and forth (making the car swerve) at about 30-40 km/h the noise would get loud when more force was exerted on the left side of the car (turning right). We also put the car up on jack stands (both front wheels) and put it in drive and there was no noise. It would only make noise when it was under load from the weight of the car. Hope this helps. Spence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted August 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Scotty, I don't notice a change doing the "s" turns, but I do notice a change when driving over long bumps. The noise disappears when the load comes off and then comes back when the car settles down. Do you think this is the same? Phillip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted August 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Spence, That is the same experience I have had when I jacked the car up to look for the problem. While I am convinced that it is a wheel bearing, I don't know how to figure out which one. I assume you don't need to replace them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Scotty, I don't notice a change doing the "s" turns, but I do notice a change when driving over long bumps. The noise disappears when the load comes off and then comes back when the car settles down. Do you think this is the same? Phillip Phillip, when mine was bad, my ball joint was also bad and it MOANED constantly, it was loud.... When I fixed the ball joint the wheel bearing moan was a little quieter, when I got it aligned it was even quieter. Its possible that yours is gone so badly that the turning doesnt vary it too much, but it should. That it quiets down at highway speed is NOT indicative of a hub bearing problem... However when you said, "At full highway speed it is reasonably quiet." AT FULL highway speed say 70 to 75 mine was really really loud... Try the S turns again and see if you get any variation and try to see if its coming from one side or the other. If you are not getting variation I would be careful changing any hub bearings... It should be pretty obvious that it is coming from one side or the other.. It could be a CV joint I suppose, and the faster you drive the speed centers the axle.. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67coupedeville Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 I am not too sure how you would figure out which one would be making the noise. I just knew that the left one was making the noise. How many miles are on your car? On the LHS it had 246,000 kms (150,000 miles) when that one went. Spence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Scotty, I don't notice a change doing the "s" turns, but I do notice a change when driving over long bumps. The noise disappears when the load comes off and then comes back when the car settles down. Do you think this is the same? Phillip Try jacking the car up and rocking the wheel at 3 and 9 o'clock and see if you get any movement. Look behind the flange to see if you have any metal filings, mine had metal filings. You say Howling, its more like a groaning, a rolling groan... Maybe you have a bad engine mount that is grounding out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted August 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 The car has 160,000 km (100,000 miles). I have tried to find any play in the wheels but I don't notice any. The ball joints are new last year and tie rods seem to be good. The car just passed an inspection and had an alignment done and the mechanic didn't notice anything wrong. I jacked the car up, blocked it well, removed the front wheels and ran the engine. I would have expected that if the CV joints were bad, I would have heard it then, but there was no noise, not even with a stethescope. Like Spence said, it seems as though it needs a load on it to cause the noise. With the load off, it is quiet. I don't know why it is quieter at highway speed. I read the shop manual and it is not very specific about this type of problem. Hmmm. Well I will keep looking and let you know what I find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 OK, its not typical of a hub bearing but listen closer to it now... Let us know what you find out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 My 02 had a similar problem and the dealer replaced the bearings under warrantee... 6 months later the noise came back... On my car the drive shafts were rubbing where they "engage" the transmission... A big blob of high temp axle grease smeared on with my finger solved the problem once and for all... Give it a try... it will cost you nothing and it can't hurt... Good Luck! Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 My 02 had a similar problem and the dealer replaced the bearings under warrantee... 6 months later the noise came back... On my car the drive shafts were rubbing where they "engage" the transmission... A big blob of high temp axle grease smeared on with my finger solved the problem once and for all... Give it a try... it will cost you nothing and it can't hurt... Good Luck! Good suggestion, and it sounds more likely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franey Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 I replaced both of my frount bearings, this past spring.96 sls, with 89,000, miles . A large number of members have replaced theirs inbetween 70000 and 120000. OF course we have had some with less miles and some with more as always.Based on the age of your car and the miles, my money is on a wheel hub, since they probably both original hubs, i would just replace both , and get it over with . IF one is bad, then the other is nearer the end of its road life than the begining. It is still going to be cheaper than a new car payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Hmmmmm.....lets see..... '92 Bonneville.....both front hubs replaced.....one for noise...one for ABS '93 SLS.....both front hubs replaced.......one twice...zing noise... '01 DTS....one hub replaced....wobble issue. See the trend? They can howl, growl, zing....all kinds on noises.... They can also wobble like on the 2001. It was wayyyy outside the wiggle spec.. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted August 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 I would like to thank everyone for the suggestions. I took the car out and drove it a little more aggressively and sure enough, the howling (or groaning) is slightly increased in hard cornering. Also, I noticed that hard turns (low speed, against the stop) actual cause a slight shudder. I am going to remove the bearings and then I will know for sure. One more question. I am pricing the parts and I can get Federal-Mogul or SKF bearings for about $200 CDN, or I can order Delco bearings for about $300. The local Delco supplier says the Federal-Mogul should be about as good as Delco. I guess I prefer Delco parts, but I also like to keep as much of my money as possible. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry94 Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 One more question. I am pricing the parts and I can get Federal-Mogul or SKF bearings for about $200 CDN, or I can order Delco bearings for about $300. The local Delco supplier says the Federal-Mogul should be about as good as Delco. I guess I prefer Delco parts, but I also like to keep as much of my money as possible. What do you guys think? I've had to replace both front bearings over the years. The right side was replaced with a Delco - From the dealer. Installed approx 5 years ago. The left side was replaced with a SKF - From CTC. Installed approx 2 years ago. Both still performing well. Barry 2008 STS V82016 Colorado Z711970 Corvette LT-1 Coupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 I would like to thank everyone for the suggestions. I took the car out and drove it a little more aggressively and sure enough, the howling (or groaning) is slightly increased in hard cornering. Also, I noticed that hard turns (low speed, against the stop) actual cause a slight shudder. I am going to remove the bearings and then I will know for sure. One more question. I am pricing the parts and I can get Federal-Mogul or SKF bearings for about $200 CDN, or I can order Delco bearings for about $300. The local Delco supplier says the Federal-Mogul should be about as good as Delco. I guess I prefer Delco parts, but I also like to keep as much of my money as possible. What do you guys think? I am glad you narrowed it down. However, removing the hub bearing will not disclose any problems the hub bearing will feel and appear normal. Look behind the flange and see if you see any tiny tiny metal filings that will confirm that you are replacing the correct side, unless of course while doing your s-turns you were able to localize the side that was bad.. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 By the way, I have utilized after market hub bearings in the past on my 91 with no problems. Be advised that the ABS speed sensor is part of these hub assemblies. I would have been reluctant to utilize an aftermarket hub bearing until Barry94 provided his experience with SKF - From CTC. I bought mine from www.gmotors.com Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted August 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Scotty, You don't think that I will be able to feel the wear with the hub off the car? I had hoped that it would give some indication of the problem, once it is removed. If not, I guess I will just have to replace it and see how it goes. I sure like a positive diagnosis though. I, like Barry, shop at Canadian Tire on occasion, and the SKF bearing is about 2/3 the price of the Delco one (I can get Delco parts at a reduced price). Based on his experience, I think I will give SKF a try. Thanks, Phillip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 No I have never been able to 'feel' anything once I got a groaning, moaning, howling hub bearing out, obviously yours could be SO far gone that it would be easy to detect, but my experience its not easy to see. Consider the force you are applying doing s-turns to vary the groan. These are hefty bearings and weigh quite a bit, I think you will be surprised. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry94 Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 I, like Barry, shop at Canadian Tire on occasion, and the SKF bearing is about 2/3 the price of the Delco one (I can get Delco parts at a reduced price). Based on his experience, I think I will give SKF a try. Thanks, Phillip Phillip, It was the price that influenced the purchase from Canadian Tire and SKF have been a reputable company for years. I remembered something about the SKF install. After it was installed, I went for a test drive to see if the noise was gone. It was, however, when I returned home and was slowly turning into the driveway I felt a slight vibration from that wheel. I made some other slow sharp turns and also felt "something" from that wheel. Long story short, when I had installed the axle nut, I did the typical back yard install. Stand on the power handle to tighten the nut. I backed off the nut and tightened to the proper spec. After that I never felt anything from that wheel again. It appears you can over tighten the nut and put undue stress on the bearing. By design you should not be able to do this, however, nothing is perfect. Barry 2008 STS V82016 Colorado Z711970 Corvette LT-1 Coupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted August 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 I want to thank everyone for the help. I replaced the bearings today and the noise is gone. I replaced the passenger side first and it seemed OK but I didn't want to put 100,000 mile bearing back on. The drivers side was another story. That hub fealt like there was a crushed bearing in it. There was no doubt where the problem was. Anyway, a few hours and $450 later, I' m back on the road. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 Terrific Phillip, glad we could help and that you found your howling! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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