clusco Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 I really need help with my A/C system. I am at my wit's end with troubleshooting this problem. For the past 2 weeks I've really been putting in some time with my car (under the hood). Ok, on to my problem: My compressor needed to be changed so I changed the compressor. For 3 days my vents blew out cold air after the systems was charged with freon, then last night all of a sudden I only had hot air blowing out. Now I know that on our cars the compressor's relay switch will kick the compressor off when it gets low on freon so that it won't fry. So, I know or at least think that their must be a leak in the line somewhere. So today I went and bought this dye to see where the leak may be coming from. I bypassed the relay to kick the compressor on, put the A/C on high and I put the dye in the system twice and could not find any evidence of where the leak was. To recap my installation. I installed a new compressor-clutch assembly and a new drier but I DID NOT install a new condenser. Is there anyway that the condenser is at the root of my problem and it is dirty with metal shavings and it is possibly being overloaded and kicking the relay switch off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 You said you put the dye in, but did you add freon? If the system is low it will not cycle the clutch/compressor and therefor will not circulate the dye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 I can't help you with this.. By the way, you already started a thread on this, for the purposes of continuity you should keep your problem in the same thread...it makes for easier reading.. Kevin is the man on this, it sounds like you have a pretty big leak someplace did you see my post in the OTHER thread about Nylog? Did you check for leaks at the O-Ring connection at the back of the compressor? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydone Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 unless u still had some freon in the system the system needs to be pulled down to about 28 - 30 lbs vacuum before u add freon and dye or stop leak wqhen u pull the system down if u have a leak it will not hold vacuum for any lenth of time if at all when i used to pull a system down i used to let it stand for awhile to see if it was leaking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 By the way, NONE of the gurus on this site advise the use of STOP LEAK for AC systems!! Nylog all O-Rings. Your experience has me a bit worried I am doing this job soon....but I plan on Nylogging the H out of all O-RINGS and Threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clusco Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Well, I guess it could be coming from the O-rings on the new compressor but I did use new O-rings and I would absolutely hate to go underneath the car yet again for the 3rd time to take that compressor out to check the O-rings and put this Nylog (by the way, do they sell that in nearby stores) around the rings. Can anyone comment on whether it could be the condenser? Also, I want to say that my A/C worked just fine right before the bearings on the compressor started to go out, which makes me wonder what the hell is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clusco Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Sorry to post 2 in a row but I wanted to reply to Ranger. I tripped the compressor's switch and bypassed it so that it cam on manually and I added 2 cans of freon and then added the dye. I will give it one more try tomorrow and get under the car while it's intaking freon and try to feel for air flow getting away near the 2 A/C lines hooked to the compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Why not take it back to the place that vacuumed the system down for you after you put another can or two in it. I'm sure they have an electronic leak detector and can probably pin point the leak for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Simultaneously press and hold the OFF and WARMER (or PASSENGER warmer) buttons on the climate control panel and write down any codes that are displayed and post back. It soulds like you have a fairly large leak that will need to be repaired and the system must be vacuumed down again and recharged. Do not use any refrigerant with stop-leak as that stuff wrecks havoc with an A/C system.... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Well, I guess it could be coming from the O-rings on the new compressor but I did use new O-rings and I would absolutely hate to go underneath the car yet again for the 3rd time to take that compressor out to check the O-rings and put this Nylog (by the way, do they sell that in nearby stores) around the rings. Can anyone comment on whether it could be the condenser? Also, I want to say that my A/C worked just fine right before the bearings on the compressor started to go out, which makes me wonder what the hell is going on. I bought the Nylog from the link that I provided, I think Kevin gave me that link. If you have an Airconditioning supply in the area, they may carry it, I had a hard time finding it, and just bought it from the link I gave you, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clusco Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Could my problem, by any chance, be caused by a bad or leaky evaporator core and if so, can anyone post a diagram of where exactly my evaporator core resides? 1995 Cadillac Seville STS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Could my problem, by any chance, be caused by a bad or leaky evaporator core and if so, can anyone post a diagram of where exactly my evaporator core resides? 1995 Cadillac Seville STS. Didn't you say that your AC worked fine before the compressor hub problem? I would be surprised that the evaporator would have a problem then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clusco Posted March 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Ok, here's the history on my A/C problem. My A/C was working fine. One day when my vents inside my car went out and only the vent near the front windshield worked. But my A/C still worked at that point, although the airflow was weak because it was only coming out from the defrost vent and the back seat vent. Then my A/C clutch began to grind and go out. So I went to replace that and when I did, I loosened the A/C line going to my drier to let all of the rest of the freon out, then I removed my old compressor clutch and then installed the new compressor clutch and drier (didn't install a new drier or condenser). I then went to a place to charge it with freon. The guy told me after 2 hours of charging that my system wasn't holding the freon and the compressor was bad. I went and got a new compressor and installed that (all done properly by the way) and brought it back the next day. This day, they just charged it and didn't say anything about a problem. For 3 days it worked fine but then on the 4th day, it just started blowing out hot air. And as far as the vents go, the guy at the shop said he thought the vents started working again when he played with some of the wires near the steering wheel where the caution light puller resides (I don't know how true that is). So anyway, it seems to me that something went wrong when I released the pressure on the A/C line hooked to the drier to release the freon before I went to replace the compressor. Should I go and take a chance and just buy a new condenser and install it? Or how common is it for the evaporator core to be the fault of my concerns? The evap. core is $300 and the condenser is $140. Either way, this has become an expensive venture. I must really love this old gal. Anyone who can, please give me some ideas. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clusco Posted March 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 One last and potentially important fact I need to add: Today and yesterday when I tried to add the dye to my A/C system, it would not take. Both times, I was able to add 3 cans of freon successfully but when I attempted to add the dye to my system, for some reason it would come shooting back through the nozzle of the can (through the release button on the can) and all over my hand. I do believe that I got one good shot in yesterday however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 I suspect the pressure in the can may be less than what it is in a full system, therefore being overpowered. You probably need to put the dye in first (empty system). I still think you should take it to the shop and let them run over all the joints with a sniffer (leak detector). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 clusco, I may be mistaken, but don't the dye instructions say to put the dye in first? Then followed by enough freon to finish filling the system. You need to make sure that you don't overfill your system. Some autoparts stores sell a cheapie A/C pressure gage that looks like a tire pressure gage. I would get one and follow the instructions to make sure that you don't have too much freon in your system. (There also is a dial type pressure gage available for a little more money.) If your system is overfull & returns liquid to the compressor, you will be replacing it again! Those guys at the shop should be able to pin point ANY problems with your system. If the system held for years and then went south when you opened it up, I would say that you need to look at the places you opened the system up. The replacement compressor could be bad also. YOu could have done everything correctly and the new compressor could have a leak in one of the case seals or the shaft seal. It is getting close to warmer weather. I remember a joke about a Texas oil man. It was after the oil boom went busted and his A/C was out. He always drove around with the windows up in his Caddy, because "I don't want anyone to know that my A/C doesn't work." And this in 90+ degree weather. Take Care, Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Forget about the "tire pressure" A/C gages - they are worse than useless as they only monitor the low pressure side of the system. The system can be so overcharged that it would be in danger of bursting a high side line yet read "normal" on the low side. You need to monitor both the high and low sides simultaneously in order to properly access the operating parameters of the system. Three cans of R-134a is a complete charge for your system so you may be overcharged if the system was not completely empty when you started. I would not suspect the condenser or the evaporator at this time since the system was working fine up to the compressor problem/replacement. The connections at the rear of the compressor where the refrigerant lines attach would be the prime candidate for a leak and/or the connections at the accumulator. Since you will need to take the car back to have it evacuated and recharged, why not have the shop leak detect the system? That way, the source of the leak will be identified and fixed. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clusco Posted March 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 The orifice tube, I did change. However, there is another canister about a 15 inches away from the orifice tube hooked on the A/C line on the firewall that seems to be vibrating violently when I try to trip the compressor. This seems to be an inline filter but I wasn't aware of changing this. I hope this is the problem but I didn't flush the system because I didn't buy a new condenser so if I have to change this canister every 2 weeks or month, I won't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clusco Posted March 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Just got back from the auto parts store. The exact, detailed name of the part I need is a micron filter. It is only available through the dealership. Does anyone know about how much these filters cost and why didn't anyone think of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 KHE, You are correct that the proper way to service these systems is by monitoring both high & low sides. The suggestion of the cheapie pressure gage is for the weeked mechanic that is adding some freon to an otherwise healthy system. clusco did not indicate that he had a catastrophic failure that would cause the high side to overpressurize. I suggested it as a tool to be sure that the low side isn't over pressurized, which can also lead to real problems. If clusco can afford it, I suggest that he take a course on HVAC & purchase a gage set. The gage set won't do any good if the person using it cannot understand what is displayed and what the different symptoms are as related to the system pressures. clusco, Another thing that I failed to ask, did you loose a lot of refirgerant oil when you opened the system to bleed the freon off? Did you drain the oil from the old compressor, measure it and replenish that amount with fresh PAG oil? Estimating oil loss from a sudden loss of freon can be dificcult. If you suspect that there has been oil lost you need to bring that fact to the attention of the shop that is servicing your car. Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clusco Posted March 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 I think I have located the problem. The orifice tube, I did change. However, there is another canister about a 15 inches away from the orifice tube hooked on the A/C line on the firewall that seems to be vibrating violently when I try to trip the compressor. This seems to be an inline filter but I wasn't aware of changing this. I hope this is the problem but I didn't flush the system because I didn't buy a new condenser so if I have to change this canister every 2 weeks or month, I won't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 I think I have located the problem. The orifice tube, I did change. However, there is another canister about a 15 inches away from the orifice tube hooked on the A/C line on the firewall that seems to be vibrating violently when I try to trip the compressor. This seems to be an inline filter but I wasn't aware of changing this. I hope this is the problem but I didn't flush the system because I didn't buy a new condenser so if I have to change this canister every 2 weeks or month, I won't mind. If you did not find any crud in the orifice tube, you don't need to flush the system. Unless someone added a filter, these cars are not equpped with filters. Have you checked the onboard diagnostics for trouble codes? I still think you have a leak in the system and that is why the compressor won't kick on... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clusco Posted March 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Guys , I now have a problem that I need solved. Ok, on my car I had a 2nd orifice tube installed that the dealer didn't know about. I installed a clean oricifice tube and my compressor still will not kick on with 3 cans of freon installed into the system. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH MY darn SYSTEM????? I can trip the switch and it will work fine but the unit will not come on by itself. What is up? I changed the compressor clutch and the drier but not the condenser. Why won't my compressor kick on now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Do you mean the dealer changed the orifice tube again? There is only one orifice tube in the system. Was the system evacuated with a vacuum pump before the R-134a was added? Did you extract the codes from the onboard diagnostics like I suggested in an earlier post? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clusco Posted March 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Guys , I now have a problem that I need solved. Ok, on my car I had a 2nd orifice tube installed that the dealer didn't know about. And when I'd trip the compressor on the 2nd orifice canister would jump violently on the firewall as if it was extremely stopped up. I installed a clean 2nd oricifice tube and my compressor still will not kick on with 3 cans of freon installed into the system. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH MY darn SYSTEM????? I can trip the switch and it will work fine but the unit will not come on by itself. What is up? I changed the compressor clutch and the drier but not the condenser. Why won't my compressor kick on now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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