Bob_Caddy Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 I was looking at buying a second car and thought why not buy another Cadillac. I was looking at the base Eldorados and noticed that they have the 4.6L Northstar but only put out 275 hp! What is the differance between the two engines? What would the 0-60 be on somethin like that? Is there that much of a noticable differance between vehicle models? I Would like to have an ETC, but for a second car all I really need is a base eldo! What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 The difference is 25 HP, a different intake cam and 3.11 vs 3.71 final drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillac_caddy_sts Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 So do they not have as high of top speed? Or is the acceleration different? I always wanted to know that to, I was wondering how much difference 25 horsepower really made? Defending Northstar perf a qtr mile at a time!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Top speed is limited by the tire rating the car came with. The 275 HP engine has higher low end torque so it will probably beat a 300 HP in the low end. After the 300 gets would up it should start to pull away. I'm not sure what speeds that would be though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 From what I understand, the lower HP engine gets better gas mileage. There was also some discussion not too long ago about which is faster, the lower HP Eldorado or 300 HP STS. Apparently, one member was going to race and wanted to know what to expect. I don't think the race ever happened because to my knowledge he never reported any results. I remember bbobynski and others were of the opinion that the STS would probably win, while others felt the Eldorado would. To my recollection, bbobynsk also said that all identically made engines are not necessarily going to be identical when it comes to overall performance as there can be variations. In other words, one 270HP engine may be able to outperform another identical 270HP engine. I believe he stated the reason but I don’t remember what it was. I found the post: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2739&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 The LD8 engine (275 hp, 300 lb*ft torque) does tend to get better gas mileage than the L37 engine (300 hp, 295 lb*ft torque). I get 20/30, sometimes as high as 32 if I'm lucky. The reason is probably the final drive. The L37 comes with the 3.71 final drive, and the engine is spinning faster all the time at the same given speed vs. the LD8. For example, at 80 mph, my LD8 only turns 2000 rpm. It'd be closer to 2500 rpm if I had the L37. Field performance to 60 is very similar. Average 0-60 times are in the mid-to-high 6s for L37 engines, and in the high 6s to around 7 seconds for LD8 engines. Those who have drove both say the LD8 feels much "punchier" around town. Looking at the power curves, I'd say that makes sense. The LD8 engine makes more power and more torque than the L37 until about 4500-5000 rpm. It's not until then that the L37 has the advantage, besides the final drive ratio. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STS Scott Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 I believe it was Bbobinski who coined the phrase, "Torque works, but Horsepower sells" With this in mind, the LD8 engine seems to me like a more "powerfull" motor, as torque is an often overlooked criteria of a motors output (at least to the general public). All the average Joe wants it a big HP number, with no regard to the real "balls" (torque) that a motor may have. With this in mind, the LD8 motor, matched up to the STS's 3.71 final drive would be force to be reconned with! " ...'took my Cobra down t' the track, hitched to the back o' my Cadillac..." - Jan & Dean, 'hey little cobra' Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 With this in mind, the LD8 motor, matched up to the STS's 3.71 final drive would be force to be reconned with! That's it -- and that's what the Bonneville GXP has. They said they wouldn't sell Pontiac the "premium" 300 hp Northstar engine...that was exclusive to Cadillac. But guess what -- that GXP runs 0-60 in the mid 6s and the 1/4 mile in the high 14s. That's eye-to-eye with the best stock Northstars out there. That LD8 engine with the 3.71 transaxle would be my pick for any performance Cadillac. Having said that, the field performance with the 3.11 final drive is almost the same, and you get 3-4 mpg more in return. If only the Bonne's interior wasn't so "loud" and aggressive. I didn't care for it at all. Perhaps down the road, it'll grow on me. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 I believe it was Bbobinski who coined the phrase, "Torque works, but Horsepower sells" Close, "People buy HP but drive torque" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yenko Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 So what do you think would win a 1/4 miles race: a 275 hp eldorado or a 300 horsepower STS? I was considering buying a 94 eldorado with 162,000 miles before I picked up my 93! IMPORT CRUSHER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbuc Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 The STS will pick up the slack pretty quick a little farther down the track. It would be close, but I think the STS woudl still win. The Eldorado is not much lighter, so weight wouldn't really be much of a deciding factor in the race. It would probably come down to how well both cars are runing, and wether or not they can get traction,....ect. I would still put my money on the STS though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67coupedeville Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 According to my 1996 Northstar System Brochere, the STS and Eldorado Touring Coupe (ETC) came with a 300hp, 275 ft lbs of torque and the 3.71 ratio. The base models; SLS and Eldorado has 275hp, 300 ft lbs of torque and the 3.11 ratio. I have read on there that the more torque in the base model makes up for the loss in horsepower that the STS has and the difference would not be big enough to notice in the seat of your pants. Timing in a 1/4 mile would be a couple hundred seconds at most. Top speed on the SLS and Eldorado are 110 MPH and the STS and ETC is 155 MPH. The suspension in the STS and ETC is firmer than in the SLS and Eldorado. Spence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Yeah, actual field performance for a stock LD8 and a stock L37 are so close, but on average, the L37 is a few tenths quicker. Note, these are measured times to significant speeds (60 mph, 1/4 mile). Especially down the long run (1/4 mile and more), the deeper breathing L37 would likely pull ahead. At speeds lower than that, the LD8 probably has the advantage, even given the 3.11 final drive. In general, though, they're so close that you shouldn't buy a car just for the engine. There are other differences between the two that you may or may not like, and the engine and powertrain is a small variable. Here are some performance times, for both LD8 and L37 cars. On average, the L37 cars are a bit quicker. Example, one '96 SLS they tested did the 1/4 in 15.flat. Look at the rest of them though. Only three vehicles of the 20 or so listed cracked into the 14s. Most all of them, including STSes and ETCs, are at least 15 seconds. http://www.jnjhome.net/cadillac/northstar.htm Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillac_caddy_sts Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 According to my 1996 Northstar System Brochere, the STS and Eldorado Touring Coupe (ETC) came with a 300hp, 275 ft lbs of torque and the 3.71 ratio. The base models; SLS and Eldorado has 275hp, 300 ft lbs of torque Top speed on the SLS and Eldorado are 110 MPH and the STS and ETC is 155 MPH. The suspension in the STS and ETC is firmer than in the SLS and Eldorado. Spence Is it not 300 H.p and 295 ft lbs of tourque? 110 MPH Why is it so low? I have had my car up to 120 MPH plenty of times are you aying if I had a base SeVille it would be impossible? Defending Northstar perf a qtr mile at a time!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Is it not 300 H.p and 295 ft lbs of tourque? 110 MPH Why is it so low? I have had my car up to 120 MPH plenty of times are you aying if I had a base SeVille it would be impossible? The 93/94 L37 engines were 295 hp and 290 lb*ft of torque. The new intake manifold for 1995 upgraded them to 300 hp and 295 lb*ft I believe. The LD8s were 270 hp and 295 lb*ft for 93/94, and 275 hp and 300 lb*ft for 95+. See the Seville year-by-year page: http://www.caddyinfo.com/sevilleyearbyyear.htm You have to look at what tires the car originally came with to determine top speed. Any Northstar-powered car is good for 140 or better, physically. But the original tire fitment determined the speed limiter. SLS had S-rated tires only from the factory. S = 112 mph speed limiter. Early STS (like 93/94 maybe) had Z-rated tires only from the factory. Z = 149+ speed limiter. In the mid-1990s, they made H-rated tires standard on the STS due to ride complaints from the Z-rated tires. H = 130 mph speed limter. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillac_caddy_sts Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 So can the car still do over that? Or does the engine shut down at that speed? I am a little confused LOL! Defending Northstar perf a qtr mile at a time!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 So can the car still do over that? Or does the engine shut down at that speed? I am a little confused LOL! A car with S-rated tires will cut fuel at or near 112 mph to control speed. A car with H-rated tires will cut fuel at or near 130 mph to control speed. A car with Z-rated tires will cut fuel at or near 150 mph to control speed.* * Note: I'm not positive there actually WAS a 150-mph speed limiter. Can someone clarify? These cars may not have had limiters, I'm not sure. The generally-accepted unlimited top speed for a 93-97 STS is in the 145-150 mph range (so there really isn't a need for a 150-mph speed limiter, since the car really can't go faster than that anyway). Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbuc Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 I always thought the z-rated optioned car's had a governor at 150. It doesn't really make much sense though, to program one into the PCM, if the car can't really go any faster. Maybe they don't. I wonder if Guru knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddy_man2132 Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Who is Guru? Why would he know LOL! I am just kidding but who is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Bbobynski (Guru) is a GM powertrain engineer who posts here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillac_caddy_sts Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 If you put a fast chip in a base model eldarodo would that put the top speed up to the same as an sts? I heard that from someone and argued but thought I would ask you guys to be sure I was right that it would not! If it would I would definitly get a fast chip if I had a base eldo or seville! Defending Northstar perf a qtr mile at a time!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Most chips claim to remove the speed limiter (which was primarily added due to the tire liabilities). These chips can not be installed on 1996 (I recall) and newer because there is no specific prom chip to replace (and the entire computer is complied code). Keep in mind, that simply removing the limiter will not add power either. So the top speed might not change much anyway. The power claims of these chips and air filter modifications are very similar. They rarely include professional, unbiased documentation. Regardless, certain users believe the claims and they continue to sell. The decals and stickers probably add more "performance" at least to the user's state of mind- than any equipment. I believe there are some other potential downsides to chips including; aftermath litigation and power train reliability (neither of which chip makers care about). FWIW, My 1994 Deville Concours w/H-tires, 275hp limits at 130 technically and runs about 126 without a hill to help. But this gets tiresome after a number of miles and then there is that awful noise from the passenger seat to contend with. <_< Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 FWIW, My 1994 Deville Concours w/H-tires, 275hp limits at 130 technically and runs about 126 without a hill to help. But this gets tiresome after a number of miles and then there is that awful noise from the passenger seat to contend with. <_> Ha ha ha ha!!! Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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