Scotty Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 What I don't like about my car is the softness of the suspension. It may be a result of my bad struts, but my springs offer very little weight support at all. I am worried that my springs are so soft that they will allow my new struts to accept too much road shock and wheel movement. I am wondering if weak springs will cause the new struts to fail fast because they are not supporting the weight of the car sufficiently. I have heard that the springs are good if they support the car at its proper ride height. On Saturday the mechanic could not put the alignment equipment on my rear wheels because the skirt line was below the top of the wheel, and I could only get the front aligned. Because of that I am thinking that my ride height may be low, indicating that my springs are in fact soft and shot.. I have to measure the ride height, the spec is in the manual. If I am not mistaken there are some suspension differences between the Deville and the Concours. I am going to replace my struts and springs. Does anyone know, 1) would there be a benefit getting the Concours springs/struts vs. the Deville? 2) would they fit? What do you all think about what I have said here? I am going to replace the front struts (OEM) and springs and the rear springs. I am considering the Concours OEM if they fit and if there is a benefit, after market performance springs if they are available, and as a last resort stock OEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carltonmat Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 does yours have the auto ride hight. ie air ride rear struts. and if so is the system working, they are what really contrle rear ride hight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carltonmat Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 i have seeen this before with older caddies, but not to shure on the newer stuff, i am trying to go lower with mine, about an inch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 does yours have the auto ride hight. ie air ride rear struts. and if so is the system working, they are what really contrle rear ride hight Yes I do have air control struts in the rear. Do the air struts control the level or do the springs set the minimum level? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydone Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 i doubt if u need to replace the springs new shocks will make a world of diff and the springs unless broken are not usually bad or weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 i doubt if u need to replace the springs new shocks will make a world of diff and the springs unless broken are not usually bad or weak You know I have heard this before, even Guru has echoed what you just said. I am confident that new struts will dampen the suspension and stop the bottoming out. If I am to keep this car, I want a tighter suspension. As it is now, driving on Long Island and New York City streets is a white knuckle affair. She is made for comfort not rough roads. I am willing to lose some of the rocking chair comfort for better stability and vertical control. What idealy I would like is a spring that will keep me at the proper ride height but a spring that will support more weight and in effect, be tighter so when I hit a rise/dip cycle on the Belt Parkway I don't rip out my under carriage. It is impossible for me to pack my family in the car for a long vacation and drive, the car is on the ground. If you could see my undercarriage and how badly damaged it is from hitting the ground you would understand. My oil pan is smashed and the steel frames have bottomed out many times even before I owned the car (at 46,000 miles). The splash guards are damaged from hitting the ground. We have the worse roads in the country in the Long Island / New York City area. Any suggestions? Does the Concours have a stiffer suspension, it uses H rated tires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydone Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 they do make a sports spring thats all i know i ordered new springs when i replacesd theshocks and after reading this board cancelled my order and saved the money make sure u replace the rears also my fronts were bad but my rears were more of a problem i have been a happy camper ever since i used arnott but if i had to doit over again i would use boston in the rear because u getv new mounting harware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Thanks who sells the sport springs do you know? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 they do make a sports spring thats all i know i ordered new springs when i replacesd theshocks and after reading this board cancelled my order and saved the money make sure u replace the rears also my fronts were bad but my rears were more of a problem i have been a happy camper ever since i used arnott but if i had to doit over again i would use boston in the rear because u getv new mounting harware How do you like the arnott ride? Was the RSS light eliminated? I was just on the phone with arnott, very inexpensive route to go, $579 for all four?, and my OEM price is $560 each. I could replace the springs and strut mounts and still be ahead of buying the two front struts. How is the arnott ride? Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Just spoke to Boston, I liked what they had to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsjoe Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Scotty, got mine from Boston, had a local place do the install and it totaled about $800 altogether, very happy with the ride Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Scotty, got mine from Boston, had a local place do the install and it totaled about $800 altogether, very happy with the ride Joe Joe, did you replace any springs? Does it bottom out anymore? Thanks for your impressions, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsjoe Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 no bottoming out and stays flat as a pool table! springs were fine and I'm at 165K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydone Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 the arnott ride is crisp and steady im pleased sport springsw are at gm parts gm deiscount parts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 As an owner of a Concours and a previous owner of a 96 base Deville, I can tell you there is a HUGE difference in the suspensions of these two cars. My 99 Concours feels like a sports car (loosely translated) compared to the Deville. The Concours comes with the Road Sensing Suspension (RSS) system that was not available on the base Deville. I wish I could tell you all of the technical mumbo-jumbo of the differences between the two suspensions, but I can't. I will leave that to the experts here. Bottom line, the Concours suspension is much tighter, stiffer, and in my opinion much better than the base Deville. It is more of a touring sedan suspension feel. As far as tires go - the Concours has "H" rated tires, but the factory tire was the Eagle RS-A performance tires. I believe the tires for the base Deville were along the lines of the Michelin Symmetrys - a straight all season passenger tire. For a firmer feel and better handling I upgraded to "V" rated Michelin Pilots. Brad ---------------------------- 1999 Deville Concours [sOLD] Blk/Blk w/gold package Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Scotty, I'm not certain if my '94 Deville Concours is comparable to your 96' Deville, but I can tell you that I have bottomed it out on "whoop-de-do" dirt roads. The shop told me the oil pan may have been a bit mashed on the bolts/etc from hitting a frame member, hence some oil seepage. <_< . Also related to your post, The Big Red Dog is getting some new Boston Suspension struts in the front and the stabilizer bar bushings checked. The struts were $343 delivered and the local guys will install 'em for about $250 (I have no spring comps, air tools or patience with frozen suspension parts)) I'll post a couple of pics and let you know how the install went. Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 And a pic of the inst list and a few parts (error suppressor/resistors) Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 As an owner of a Concours and a previous owner of a 96 base Deville, I can tell you there is a HUGE difference in the suspensions of these two cars. My 99 Concours feels like a sports car (loosely translated) compared to the Deville. The Concours comes with the Road Sensing Suspension (RSS) system that was not available on the base Deville. I wish I could tell you all of the technical mumbo-jumbo of the differences between the two suspensions, but I can't. I will leave that to the experts here. Bottom line, the Concours suspension is much tighter, stiffer, and in my opinion much better than the base Deville. It is more of a touring sedan suspension feel. As far as tires go - the Concours has "H" rated tires, but the factory tire was the Eagle RS-A performance tires. I believe the tires for the base Deville were along the lines of the Michelin Symmetrys - a straight all season passenger tire. For a firmer feel and better handling I upgraded to "V" rated Michelin Pilots. Thats very cool thanks for that impression. That is exactly what I am looking for. My Deville comes with the RSS system also. So I am thinking that the reason for the tightness may be elsewhere. Maybe springs and strut related. I am going to go to the dealer and see that they say about it. If its springs and if they fit my car, I am buying them immediately. I am almost feeling like its a coin flip between arnot and boston. The boston tech seemed more knowledgable to me and understood the problems I was having totally. So I am leaning in the boston direction. He suggested that I put Concours springs in the rear. I need to find out from the dealer if I can upgrade to Concours springs, that would be great!! Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Scotty, I'm not certain if my '94 Deville Concours is comparable to your 96' Deville, but I can tell you that I have bottomed it out on "whoop-de-do" dirt roads. The shop told me the oil pan may have been a bit mashed on the bolts/etc from hitting a frame member, hence some oil seepage. . Also related to your post, The Big Red Dog is getting some new Boston Suspension struts in the front and the stabilizer bar bushings checked. The struts were $343 delivered and the local guys will install 'em for about $250 (I have no spring comps, air tools or patience with frozen suspension parts)) I'll post a couple of pics and let you know how the install went. Hey thanks a lot, your timing is perfect! LOL... I am very interested in your impressions. Hey if I can 'upgrade' my suspension to a Concours, maybe I can get H-rated tires also! That would be nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 What I don't like about my car is the softness of the suspension. It may be a result of my bad struts, but my springs offer very little weight support at all. Scotty, My Eldorado also had all of the characteristics of your suspension. The car still had original struts at 170K miles and replacing the struts on all 4 corners with Gabriel's did make quite a difference but it was still a bit soft and still bottomed out. I since have upgraded to 17" wheels and 225/55/R17 tires. This sets the car up about 1/2 an inch higher and no longer does it bottom when driving over dips out and it definitely took a lot of the softness out of the ride. It also made a big difference in handling and steering response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Thanks Ed, I think the Concours has 17" wheels, Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 What I don't like about my car is the softness of the suspension. It may be a result of my bad struts, but my springs offer very little weight support at all. I am worried that my springs are so soft that they will allow my new struts to accept too much road shock and wheel movement. I am wondering if weak springs will cause the new struts to fail fast because they are not supporting the weight of the car sufficiently. I have heard that the springs are good if they support the car at its proper ride height. On Saturday the mechanic could not put the alignment equipment on my rear wheels because the skirt line was below the top of the wheel, and I could only get the front aligned. Because of that I am thinking that my ride height may be low, indicating that my springs are in fact soft and shot.. I have to measure the ride height, the spec is in the manual. If I am not mistaken there are some suspension differences between the Deville and the Concours. I am going to replace my struts and springs. Does anyone know, 1) would there be a benefit getting the Concours springs/struts vs. the Deville? 2) would they fit? What do you all think about what I have said here? I am going to replace the front struts (OEM) and springs and the rear springs. I am considering the Concours OEM if they fit and if there is a benefit, after market performance springs if they are available, and as a last resort stock OEM. The skirt line on a '94-'96 is below the top of the tire by design. The rear wheel-wells were not "cut-out" until '97. If your car is sagging that low and bottoming out when you have a loaded trunk or 2-3 passengers in the back seat, I would start checking the automatic level control system before throwing struts at the problem....you just might solve the problem for the cost of an air line splice kit. The rear air struts set the ride height of the car. Lean on the rear bumper - after about 10-30 seconds, the compressor should come on and level the car out. If not, you've found the problem area. If the compressor is not functioning, check the relay - many times, the air line wears through and the compressor runs continuously and cooks the relay contacts. Prior to '94, the "LEVEL RIDE" light on the dash would illuminate whenever the compressor was running - if the light was on continuously, that meant the compressor was running continuously and there was an air leak or bad height sensor. Unfortunately, the "LEVEL RIDE" light was eliminated after '93 on the FWD cars. There are other troubleshooting techniques in the shop manual for the level control system. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Kevin, hey were have you been? Good to see you. The skirt line is below the edge of the WHEEL..... I was not referring to the tire. As a result of the skirt line being below the edge of the WHEEL he could not attach the alignment equipment to the wheel... He said he never saw that before.. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Kevin, hey were have you been? Good to see you. The skirt line is below the edge of the WHEEL..... I was not referring to the tire. As a result of the skirt line being below the edge of the WHEEL he could not attach the alignment equipment to the wheel... He said he never saw that before.. Mike I've been busy parting out my 1991 Ski-Doo snowmobile on ebay... The engine failed and it cost as much to repair the old machine as what it would bring if it were in running condition. Plus, I got an incredible deal that I could not pass up on a 2003 Ski-Doo two weeks ago.... I still think you have something amiss with your level control system. A couple of years ago, my Dad's '94 Fleetwood had the same symptoms as your '96 - it was riding really low and seemed to bottom out. The air line to the rear shocks was worn through and caused the compressor to run continuously which destroyed the relay. A new relay and a $2.00 air line splice kit and the car was back to normal. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Thanks Kevin, I will look that over. The compressor starts and then stops. I have put a 90 pound back of concrete in it and she comes right up. Maybe its possible I need to adjust the leveler link to get the 'ride height' up. I was reading the 'ride height' specs last night in my manual (Section 3 I think). I know what you mean however, if the springs are weak, the air compressor will raise it to the correct level regardless, but when raised I am still low and the compressor stops.. The springs are cheap enough so that when I do the Arnott or Boston conversion while I am at it, I am just going to put on new springs, it will make the process go a lot faster anyway, I can have them assembled by my local machine shop in advance... Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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