Currently Looks to buy Deville 2001+ advice or suggestions??

[jessyka]

Hello everyone. I am new to the community. I would like to know if anyone has any advice for purchasing a used Deville .

Here are my minimum requirements I have for my future purchase. If you have any others I should add to this or any other advice please reply.

2001+ , under 100,000 miles, no 2008 ( read issues with cads that year) , no major accidents, no emissions failure ever reported ( I know you can easily fake this by paying off a place to pass you) but if the car has no laps in dealer regular maintenance than I won't worry, regular maintenance from dealership, Clean outside and in.

My worry is that I live in southern calfornia and I don't want to get screwed over. Lots of these little tiny dealerships and worried they might try to scam me. This will be my first ever older car cadillac purchase. My DAD has been trying to get me to buy an older cadillac for years and even suggested I head over to Palms Springs for ones that are low milage and well taken care of.

I always bought new or leased so I wouldn't worry about my cars costing me a fortune to fix.

Any tips or advice is appreciated. Thanks

[Cadillac Jim]

When buying any used car, there are two thing to keep in mind:

1. Get a CarFAX or equivalent on the car before you commit. All you need is the VIN (visible through the windshield on the left front edge of the dashboard).
2. Have the car looked at by a reputable service that performs inspections. If you have a good relationship with a place that maintains your present car, that will do. This will cost about $100 but is very much worth the cost. Be sure that the inspection covers tires, body, interior and accessories, not just engine and transmission.

With a Cadillac up through the 2005 model year, you can run the OBD codes. See a link in my signature block on how to do it. There are slight variations from year to year. Note which OBD codes are HISTORY and which are CURRENT. When you do that, write them down and post them here for a quick read on the status of the car, as seen by its own computers.

Any car more than about eight years old will usually not be for sale on a dealer lot. They will wholesale the older cars and you will find them at independent used car dealers. Look for one that has been around for awhile, as you say.

To avoid subtle but pervasive bias against women, take a man with you, preferably one that is knowledgeable enough to actively look at the cars with you - but, test drive them yourself. A husband, boyfriend, brother, father, or any other close relative or good friend is good. In a pinch, ask an associate from work or whatever to shop with you.

You can do a search on cars.com or other reputable car shopping web site; be advised that most of them don't have a lot of older cars and will have mostly dealer lots; focus on what *you* want and ignore the rest. People routinely find on the web good used Cadillacs a lot older than the year range that you are looking at.

Getting dealers to maintain older cars can be difficult and many use independent mechanics. If you find a car that is 15 years old and still has all of its oil changes in dealer records, that's great, but going to independent mechanics after the warranty is over is quite common. It's not a deal-breaker. Lots of people with luxury cars keep the paper records of their maintenance when they do that. But the real criteria of a used car's quality is its history (get a CarFAX!) and condition (mechanic's inspection).

If you are more comfortable with a warranty, you can get an aftermarket warranty for a used car. I don't recommend it because it's cheaper, when you speak of averages, to just be ready to deal with maintenance issues if they occur. The after-market warranty people make money off the percentages that you can keep in your pocket. But the service is there if you want it.

[James Woods]

Take a nice long test drive. Look for any signs of overheating. The engines are know for head gasket problems. Once fixed correctly it'll never be a problem again.

If your not well versed in Cadillac and their problems its always best to pay a knowledgeable mechanic to look over car. $100-$150 can save a ton down the road.

[KHE]

Make sure to perform or have a shop perform a block test to make sure there are no exhaust gasses getting into the coolant. Exhasut gasses get into the coolant via a bad head gasket. If the car fails the block test, walk away.

You will usually be ahead paying for repairs on a older car vs. new car payments.

[elmaestro]

My best advice is to take it to a mechanic and have him do a head gasket check by checking for exhaust gas in the expansion tank. They also sell a kit that allows you to do it yourself. Also, when the car has been allowed to cool after running there should be no pressure in the expansion tank (where you add water and coolant). Unfortunately, I learned this a little too late. I bought an impeccable looking 2003 Deville with 82,000 miles after a short and light test drive. Two days after I bought it and checking all the fluids I made a 52 mile run and the car started overheating. I became intimately aware of the Dreaded Head Gasket Problem with these cars. As I understand it, the head bolts start loosening from the aluminum head because of the thread failure in the head. It is a very common problem. It is a shame because if it was not for this manufacturing defect it is an excellent engine. I paid $4,200 cash for it and I am not sure what my next course of action will be. I am contemplating just selling it which I will end up losing out big time or fixing it and have even more money than what it's worth. I have been looking for experienced northstar engine mechanics close to home where shipping won't add 800-1500 in shipping to and from. Then it is hard to trust their work without knowing them personally. From what I read, once the bolt issue is taken care of it will be very reliable. If the car you buy is in good shape but has not had the bolts replaced and heads fixed you have a 50/50 chance it will not develop the same issue because what I heard from other owners and read in forums is that it usually happens at around +/- 140,000 miles depending on how it was driven. I have a 2000 Lincoln Town car with 138,000 miles that rides smoother and I have really treated it rough and is still going strong. Good Luck and be wary.

[KHE]

My best advice is to take it to a mechanic and have him do a head gasket check by checking for exhaust gas in the expansion tank. They also sell a kit that allows you to do it yourself. Also, when the car has been allowed to cool after running there should be no pressure in the expansion tank (where you add water and coolant). Unfortunately, I learned this a little too late. I bought an impeccable looking 2003 Deville with 82,000 miles after a short and light test drive. Two days after I bought it and checking all the fluids I made a 52 mile run and the car started overheating. I became intimately aware of the Dreaded Head Gasket Problem with these cars. As I understand it, the head bolts start loosening from the aluminum head because of the thread failure in the head. It is a very common problem. It is a shame because if it was not for this manufacturing defect it is an excellent engine. I paid $4,200 cash for it and I am not sure what my next course of action will be. I am contemplating just selling it which I will end up losing out big time or fixing it and have even more money than what it's worth. I have been looking for experienced northstar engine mechanics close to home where shipping won't add 800-1500 in shipping to and from. Then it is hard to trust their work without knowing them personally. From what I read, once the bolt issue is taken care of it will be very reliable. If the car you buy is in good shape but has not had the bolts replaced and heads fixed you have a 50/50 chance it will not develop the same issue because what I heard from other owners and read in forums is that it usually happens at around +/- 140,000 miles depending on how it was driven. I have a 2000 Lincoln Town car with 138,000 miles that rides smoother and I have really treated it rough and is still going strong. Good Luck and be wary.

How it is driven had NOTHING to do with the head gasket failure. Lack of cooling system maintenance is the number 1 killer of the head bolts/gaskets. Your car should have had three or four coolant changes by now. The Dexcool has a 5 year or 100,000 mile life - whichever comes first. If the coolant was changed at the 5 year mark, only half the coolant can be drained so that drops the time interval to 2-1/2 years. My guess is the coolant was never changed in the car.

[elmaestro]

My best advice is to take it to a mechanic and have him do a head gasket check by checking for exhaust gas in the expansion tank. They also sell a kit that allows you to do it yourself. Also, when the car has been allowed to cool after running there should be no pressure in the expansion tank (where you add water and coolant). Unfortunately, I learned this a little too late. I bought an impeccable looking 2003 Deville with 82,000 miles after a short and light test drive. Two days after I bought it and checking all the fluids I made a 52 mile run and the car started overheating. I became intimately aware of the Dreaded Head Gasket Problem with these cars. As I understand it, the head bolts start loosening from the aluminum head because of the thread failure in the head. It is a very common problem. It is a shame because if it was not for this manufacturing defect it is an excellent engine. I paid $4,200 cash for it and I am not sure what my next course of action will be. I am contemplating just selling it which I will end up losing out big time or fixing it and have even more money than what it's worth. I have been looking for experienced northstar engine mechanics close to home where shipping won't add 800-1500 in shipping to and from. Then it is hard to trust their work without knowing them personally. From what I read, once the bolt issue is taken care of it will be very reliable. If the car you buy is in good shape but has not had the bolts replaced and heads fixed you have a 50/50 chance it will not develop the same issue because what I heard from other owners and read in forums is that it usually happens at around +/- 140,000 miles depending on how it was driven. I have a 2000 Lincoln Town car with 138,000 miles that rides smoother and I have really treated it rough and is still going strong. Good Luck and be wary.

How it is driven had NOTHING to do with the head gasket failure. Lack of cooling system maintenance is the number 1 killer of the head bolts/gaskets. Your car should have had three or four coolant changes by now. The Dexcool has a 5 year or 100,000 mile life - whichever comes first. If the coolant was changed at the 5 year mark, only half the coolant can be drained so that drops the time interval to 2-1/2 years. My guess is the coolant was never changed in the car.

I am the second owner of this car and the cadillac dealership had the maintenance records of everything that was done to the car since the original owner bought it from them up until I bought it. The man was not driving it the last year he had it. One of his grandsons was before he traded it in for a used jeep for the grandson. I bought the car "as is" so they would not give me my money back or let me trade for another one without them hitting me very, very low with an offer. The least they did was take it in the shop and verify that it was indeed the head gasket and somehow found after the diagnostic that the head bolts needed replacement. There are many reasons things can happen and you have to be open to the possibility that your accepted reasons for things happening are not the only possible choices. Regardless of the reason I am stuck on what my next step is. Either I sink more money into it and be at a greater loss in value or cut my losses now and sell it? As it stands, I have not found an experienced northstar mechanic locally and the shipping alone to and from to one looks like it will add about 1,600 more to the fix. Luckily I have other vehicles that I use as this one is a driveway fixture.

[Cadillac Jim]

You don't need an experienced Northstar mechanic. You DO need someone who takes their time, follows directions exactly, and doesn't take short-cuts. Lots of people here who have never done engine work before have done successful head gasket jobs.

The head bolts in nearly all aluminum engines are long, with the threads at the bottom of the cylinders, just outside the circle of metal that encloses the crankshaft. The long head bolts allow the stretch as the engine heats and cools while maintaining good clamping force on the head all the time.

The cause of failure is usually one of the back corner head bolts pulling its threads, because coolant seepage has entered the bolt hole well and penetrated the anti-corrosion coating of the bolt and block; this takes years, and doesn't even start until too-old coolant gets acid and corrodes leakage paths through the head gasket to let coolant get at the head bolt wells. This whole process takes about seven years from a full coolant change. It's not a manufacturing defect at all. Any aluminum engine will have corrosion problems if you let the coolant go too long, and it is always expensive to fix. But, it can't get any worse than a head gasket job.

Anytime you pull the head bolts on a Northstar for any reason, you *must* Timesert the head bolt holes.

What you need to find is someone who will do a Timesert job and guarantee it for a year. Timesert inserts are used on a wide variety of cars, including Ford, VW, Porsche, GM, Toyota, BMW, Harley-Davidson, Honda, etc. They are used in all aluminum thread repairs, including spark plug threads, oil pan bolts, etc. Doing head bolts where the threads are at the bottom of deep wells takes an alignment plat that is bolted to hold the drill/tap in alignment during the process, and one must be patient and do both drilling and tapping in small increments to avoid overheating the drill/tap/block/threads.

In other words, any really good engine rebuilder should be able to do a Timesert job on your engine. Most shops that do internal engine work can do a good Timesert job. You can too, if you have the time, room, patience, and can rent the engine hoist and engine stand.

Watch for ASE certification; look for this symbol on certificates on the wall:

Read the names on those certificates and see if they are the same people that will be working on your engine.

One last thing - an outfit with a clean shop is more likely to do a good job on something like Timeserting than a shop with greasy dirt obscuring whatever surface represents the floor of the shop. And, if you have a few days, watch and see if the cars in the lot change, day by day. If cars come and stay, that's not a good sign.

I know a shop that meets all the criteria, ASE certification, smart people, clean shop, but they won't do Timesert jobs. Apparently they don't make much money with them, and they have a lot of work, so they prefer to do quicker jobs that pay more on the flat rate manual. If you run into that, ask them to recommend someone.

[KHE]

I am the second owner of this car and the cadillac dealership had the maintenance records of everything that was done to the car since the original owner bought it from them up until I bought it.

Were there any receipts for coolant changes?

Where are you located?

[elmaestro]

You don't need an experienced Northstar mechanic. You DO need someone who takes their time, follows directions exactly, and doesn't take short-cuts. Lots of people here who have never done engine work before have done successful head gasket jobs.

The head bolts in nearly all aluminum engines are long, with the threads at the bottom of the cylinders, just outside the circle of metal that encloses the crankshaft. The long head bolts allow the stretch as the engine heats and cools while maintaining good clamping force on the head all the time.

The cause of failure is usually one of the back corner head bolts pulling its threads, because coolant seepage has entered the bolt hole well and penetrated the anti-corrosion coating of the bolt and block; this takes years, and doesn't even start until too-old coolant gets acid and corrodes leakage paths through the head gasket to let coolant get at the head bolt wells. This whole process takes about seven years from a full coolant change. It's not a manufacturing defect at all. Any aluminum engine will have corrosion problems if you let the coolant go too long, and it is always expensive to fix. But, it can't get any worse than a head gasket job.

Anytime you pull the head bolts on a Northstar for any reason, you *must* Timesert the head bolt holes.

What you need to find is someone who will do a Timesert job and guarantee it for a year. Timesert inserts are used on a wide variety of cars, including Ford, VW, Porsche, GM, Toyota, BMW, Harley-Davidson, Honda, etc. They are used in all aluminum thread repairs, including spark plug threads, oil pan bolts, etc. Doing head bolts where the threads are at the bottom of deep wells takes an alignment plat that is bolted to hold the drill/tap in alignment during the process, and one must be patient and do both drilling and tapping in small increments to avoid overheating the drill/tap/block/threads.

In other words, any really good engine rebuilder should be able to do a Timesert job on your engine. Most shops that do internal engine work can do a good Timesert job. You can too, if you have the time, room, patience, and can rent the engine hoist and engine stand.

Watch for ASE certification; look for this symbol on certificates on the wall:

Read the names on those certificates and see if they are the same people that will be working on your engine.

One last thing - an outfit with a clean shop is more likely to do a good job on something like Timeserting than a shop with greasy dirt obscuring whatever surface represents the floor of the shop. And, if you have a few days, watch and see if the cars in the lot change, day by day. If cars come and stay, that's not a good sign.

I know a shop that meets all the criteria, ASE certification, smart people, clean shop, but they won't do Timesert jobs. Apparently they don't make much money with them, and they have a lot of work, so they prefer to do quicker jobs that pay more on the flat rate manual. If you run into that, ask them to recommend someone.

Thanks for the advice. The shops I have asked are reluctant to do it so I won't press them to. I have also been told that the heads would have to be sent to the machine shop to get resurfaced regardless. I have not read of that having to be done when doing a timesert job so I don't know how true is that.

[elmaestro]

I am the second owner of this car and the cadillac dealership had the maintenance records of everything that was done to the car since the original owner bought it from them up until I bought it.

Were there any receipts for coolant changes?

Where are you located?

They have the info on their system and I could probably check on that. I am located in south Texas.

[Cadillac Jim]

I understand that Northstar heads do not need resurfacing in general, but you would want to check the flatness against the out-of-flat specs of the head before reassembling. Since the head is not iron, a few thousandths will be resolved when the head is bolted back on. Too much and the clamping force is affected and this could lead to gasket leakage. I'll look up that information in my 1997 FSM if you like.

You may choose to leave the head/cams/valves/lifters/springs with a good head shop and let them do what's necessary. If it's old-coolant-head-leakage that hasn't gone on for years, they probably won't need much. You will get a check of cam wear, lifter condition, break-in moly paste on the cam lobes and lifters, break-in oil additive, and other important details by dealing with a good head shop. In South Texas, look in the bigger towns like San Antonio to find people with experience and some work volume in DOHC heads. If you are very near Laredo, Brownsville, Corpus Christi, or Victoria, you should be able to find a good machine shop that can recondition your heads. After all, all-aluminum DOHC 32-valve V8's were a top-of-the-line engine for several makes from about 1990 through about 2012.

You are right not to press someone to take on a job that they aren't comfortable with.

[KHE]

The Northstar heads typically do not need to be resurfaced. Valves don't need to be ground when doing a headgasket job. I would not want someone messing with the valves and seals. If they do not install the OE viton seals, it could start burning oil. Also, if you get a shop that doesn't follow the factory procedures or substitutes their "small block Chevy knowledge", a lot can go wrong.

[James Woods]

My best advice is to take it to a mechanic and have him do a head gasket check by checking for exhaust gas in the expansion tank. They also sell a kit that allows you to do it yourself. Also, when the car has been allowed to cool after running there should be no pressure in the expansion tank (where you add water and coolant). Unfortunately, I learned this a little too late. I bought an impeccable looking 2003 Deville with 82,000 miles after a short and light test drive. Two days after I bought it and checking all the fluids I made a 52 mile run and the car started overheating. I became intimately aware of the Dreaded Head Gasket Problem with these cars. As I understand it, the head bolts start loosening from the aluminum head because of the thread failure in the head. It is a very common problem. It is a shame because if it was not for this manufacturing defect it is an excellent engine. I paid $4,200 cash for it and I am not sure what my next course of action will be. I am contemplating just selling it which I will end up losing out big time or fixing it and have even more money than what it's worth. I have been looking for experienced northstar engine mechanics close to home where shipping won't add 800-1500 in shipping to and from. Then it is hard to trust their work without knowing them personally. From what I read, once the bolt issue is taken care of it will be very reliable. If the car you buy is in good shape but has not had the bolts replaced and heads fixed you have a 50/50 chance it will not develop the same issue because what I heard from other owners and read in forums is that it usually happens at around +/- 140,000 miles depending on how it was driven. I have a 2000 Lincoln Town car with 138,000 miles that rides smoother and I have really treated it rough and is still going strong. Good Luck and be wary.

Another option of just to resell the car would be a used salvage yard engine with a warranty. The engine might have already been timesert repaired or it might be ticking bomb. That's where the warranty helps. If you but through LKQ and get their warranty option then labor is also covered. I'm not sure of any other used parts suppliers that cover labor. LKQ is a big company that does nationwide businesses mostly to body shops. Very trust worthy in my opinion.