James Woods Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Hello, I've hit a problem upgrading my 2002 DTS mirrors to the 2003 and up turn signal mirror . hoping a member has had the same issue. I've searched but couldn't find a common problem. Got the install and wiring completed thanks to the the threads and wisdom of JimD. Buttoned up car and tested left and right turn signal. Works perfect. Then later when I was driving I noticed the mirror signals also light up when I brake . Both side . Not good. For the signal wire I found both left and right turn under the passenger sill plate. For anyone doing it for a Deville its light green for the right turn and pale yellow for left turn. But since the rear factory tail lamps that are LED it lights the same segments for turn and brake . So when I brake its back feeding power to my mirror signals. My only thought is to tear out wiring and maybe tap the front turn signal wiring for the power to my mirror . I also checked at the flasher unit and the wires there also have 12v when brakes applied. Any help or thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 I would think you should be tapping into the front circuits rather than the rear. Then you would not have any feedback issue. I have not done the swap myself so I dont know all about that. Best of luck to you GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Woods Posted September 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 I have enough electrical knowledge to get most things done and also enough to get myself in trouble. That being said. I was thinking of maybe a diode after my splice . If I remember right a diode works like a one way valve for electricity. So then power will go the rear but will stopped at the diode and therefore not back feed to my mirror . I can easily pull will panel and solder in 2 diodes easier and quicker than finding a front tap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Woods Posted September 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 I'm not familiar with the sevilles (I currently have a 02 DTS and a 04 dhs) but I'm guessing the rear turn and brake bulbs are separate. It doesn't seem that many have done Deville upgrade but a lot of Seville owners have done the mod. I guess the Seville owners are more adventurous than us Deville owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 A diode won't help. The lights in the rear-view mirror are already diodes (LED == light emitting diode). -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Woods Posted September 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 A diode won't help. The lights in the rear-view mirror are already diodes (LED == light emitting diode). I know about the D in LED, that's why the + and - are important to led lights vs. A conventional lamp where polarity doesn't matter it'll light as long as power and ground are present. What I'm thinking is kinda like this. Point A is turn signal stalk, B is flasher relay, C is splice to mirror and D is the rear lamp LED. If I insert a diode between rear lamps and splice ( points C and D) then it should make that part of the circuit a one way path only allowing power to go from point C to D. In theory its sounds like its a solution. But in reality I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 That won't do it. I'll get the schematic for the 2003 Deville and post it after work today. Then we can talk from that. It will have the wire colors for the different cables in the harness. I think the only real solution is to tap the wire to the front turn signals. The schematic will tell. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Woods Posted September 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 That won't do it. I'll get the schematic for the 2003 Deville and post it after work today. Then we can talk from that. It will have the wire colors for the different cables in the harness. I think the only real solution is to tap the wire to the front turn signals. The schematic will tell.Thanks. Remember I'm putting 2003 mirrors on a 2002 that is not supposed to have them. I know the mirror wiring harnes is different on a 03 and up.I'm actually kind of liking brake lights in my mirrors at night. Its different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 I dont believe a diode will do anything because it is still a feed coming from the wire. you dont really have a backfeed. GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 The schematics on the DVD are pretty fragmented and I didn't locate the turn switch or relays tonight. I did find that the turn signal indicators are operated through the front turn signal power lines. And, the turn/stop/park lamps are dual-filament bulbs. The schematic for the front turn signals is here: You have apparently been using the rear turn signal lines, which are also the stoplight lines. The front turn signal lines are LT BLU (left) and DK BLU (right), and these are the wires that you need to use for the outside mirror turn signal lines. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Woods Posted September 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 The schematics on the DVD are pretty fragmented and I didn't locate the turn switch or relays tonight. I did find that the turn signal indicators are operated through the front turn signal power lines. And, the turn/stop/park lamps are dual-filament bulbs. The schematic for the front turn signals is here: You have apparently been using the rear turn signal lines, which are also the stoplight lines. The front turn signal lines are LT BLU (left) and DK BLU (right), and these are the wires that you need to use for the outside mirror turn signal lines. Thanks for the help. I'm wondering where the front signal wires run. I tapped into the big bundle running down the passenger side under the willate. I can't imagine the front signals would be in the bundle headed to the rear. I'll start tracking from the front signals back to the firewall. Thanks again. Great community and forum you all have here. I hope I can help a member as well as I've been helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Woods Posted September 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 I dont believe a diode will do anything because it is still a feed coming from the wire. you dont really have a backfeed.With out the wiring diagram I am not sure if the turn and brake share a wire or if separate circuits powering the same led segments hence sending power back down the turn signal wire. Thats where a diode would work. But if using 1 wire for both its useless. My next purchase will be a FSM with wiring diagrams and I won't be lost. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Woods Posted September 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 BTW if there is anyone in the central Ohio area who wants to do this I'll be glad to help. It only takes about 30 minutes per side. And I have a extra set of signal mirrors I'll sell cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 I had a little more time tonight and located the schematics for the turn signal and hazard warning signals. The turn signals in the 2002 Deville are simple switches that send signals to a computer, the turn/hazard flasher module, which also takes a signal from the DIM when the hazard switch is turned. All timing and logic is done in the turn/hazard flasher module, as well as switching the power to the front turn signal lines. Power is from the 10 Amp IGN 1 and 15 Amp TSIG/HAZ fuses in the rear fuse block. Rear turn signal lines are in another schematic, for the right and left tail lamps, and they are driven by YEL and DK GRN lines from the turn/hazard flasher module. What that tells me is that when you press the hazard warning switch, all four turn signals flash in unison, and if you have extra turn signal lights on the outside rear-view mirrors, they flash too. But the front LT BLU/DK BLU wires don't turn on with the brakes but the rear YEL/GRN/DK GRN wires *do* turn on with the brakes. One connector that the LT BLU/DK BLU wires go through is C201, which is located "Instrument panel harness to the body harness, under the right side of the dash pad near the windshield." This is a 20-cavity connector, and the LT BLU/DK BLU wires are in D5 and D6, respectively. Another pairs connector that carries the LT BLU/DK BLU wires is C102 and C103, 7 cavities each, which are located "Forward lamp harness to the body harness, right front corner of the engine compartment near the underhood fuse block" and "Forward lamp harness to the body harness, left front corner of the engine compartment near the left side of the radiator" respectively. The LT BLU/DK BLU wires are in cavities A. I suspect that using C201, under the dash, is easier than using C102 and C103, which are on the left and right of the car but are just forward of the firewall under the hood. Whichever is more convenient to the feed-through to the doors is going to be the best for getting to the outside rearview mirrors. If you need pictures, I can download drawings of the harness at these points and also a diagram of the connector cavities, but you should be able to go by the wire color. If the harness is taped so that you can't verify the wire colors by looking, let me know and I'll download the drawings. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Woods Posted September 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Wow. I cant give you enough thanks.your help has been way above and beyond the general forum help. That's is in depth and answers a lot . thanks to your information I found the blue wires under the passenger side and changed my connection . all works as it should. I went by the info from others that did the install on Seville's and thought the blue wires was model specific to Seville's. Didn't really see any post from others who did a Deville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 glad you got it done. Seems like a neat feature. Some pics would be nice GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Woods Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 glad you got it done. Seems like a neat feature. Some pics would be nice I'll get some soon. I've been out of town for work. Hope to be home soon. Buying a xts or a cts-v as soon as I have time to find one I like. Can't decide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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