jndnaps Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 darn, My local GM dealers parts dept said our wholesale price was $134.00 for a set of OEM wires. We don't even have to pay taxes.. Hmmmmm He must be charging us retail and then some.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Ah, that explains the $90. I just ordered a set from Rock Auto. They said I probably won't receive them til middle of next week, arrrg! I'll let you guys know as soon as I get them installed. I can't imagine what else it could be. It's driving me nuts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STS Scott Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Larry, Consider me a stragler, but I just noticed your post, and read with great interest all 6 pages of it (so far!). My STS is experiencing a hesitation/loss of power/shuddering problem when you accelerate too. In fact, the problem must be "going around', for it just started begining this week as well! lol I first noticed a slight hesitation when really digging into it, last weekend, and that progressed to where is is now...idling very rough, and seemingly running on 7 cylinders when accelerating. At highway speeds, when the Torque Converter locks up, there comes a horrible shudder, and backfiring, too. I brought it in for service this evening for I had an appointment booked, due to squeaky brakes (they will be keeping it overnight and working on it tomorrow), however, since this hesitation arose, my Dad and I suspected the Wires being the culpret. My mechanic seemed to have jumped the gun after I called him to mention I thought the problem was the wires, for he has already ordered them, and will be recieving them tomorrow. I learned of this when I dropped the car off this evening! He said he ordered the AC Delco ones, but did not tell me the price (I did not request it), 'cause there were other customers there (he is a "different" type of guy, but he is an trusted friend of my Dad's, and knows his stuff! lol) The point is, it looks like I will be getting new wires up tomorrow, and I will be sure to report back to you on the result. Furthermore, my Dad's past Olds Aurora ('97), and Pontiac Bonneville ('94) both experienced a miss just like what the STS is doing now (and your symptoms describe), and both cars were remidied by replacing the wires. This little bit of "history" makes me confident the car will come out of the shop tomorrow running smooth-as-silk, and I hopefully (I am pretty sure) will prove to be your solution aswell! I hope this provides you with some light for the tunnel your in right now! " ...'took my Cobra down t' the track, hitched to the back o' my Cadillac..." - Jan & Dean, 'hey little cobra' Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Scott, thanks for the insite. Much appreciated. I ordered the wires this afternoon. I also posted this problem on Cadillac Forums.com. I received a good answer from "Mastertech" as well as Guru. Both confirmed my suspicions that it was the wires. Here is Guru's reply, which once again taught me something I did not know. I think it will be of help to several others who seem to be expiriencing the same problem. "Running at part throttle (like when you notice the miss) there is a lot of EGR going into the engine. This puts a lot of demand on the ignition system as one of the hardest ignition requirements is igniting the charge that is 18% EGR....so it puts a lot of load or demand on the ignition system. Going to deeper throttle turns off the EGR and even deeper throttle adds more fuel for power enrichment...both creating an "easier to ignite" mixture in the chamber. Sort of goes against common knowlege as most people expect full throttle to be the highest demand point for the ignition. It is not unusual for an ignition breakdown to show up at part throttle on an engine running a lot of EGR and the Northstar runs a lot of EGR for Nox control and for fuel economy. That is one of the secrets of how to get good fuel economy with a large car....throttle the engine with a lot of EGR to reduce pumping losses and design the combustion chamber to allow repeatable combustion even with the high dilution ratios. The Northstar chamber has good incylinder motion to allow those high EGR fractions...but...the high EGR fractions need a good ignition system to get the fire lit reliably. So...it can cause a "part throttle" situation to be a high demand situation for the ignition system. One other thing about part throttle operation like you describe that makes it more susceptable to an engine mis-fire....or maybe I should say it makes an engine misfire more obvious....is that the torque converter clutch is on at that point and that tends to magnify any engine instability. When you crowd into it the torque converter clutch will disengage and just the open torque converter will isolate a slight misfire making it seem to disappear or get less noticeable. You can use some silicone di-electric grease in the spark plug boots on the plug ends and on the coil ends to keep them from sticking and to help seal the boots to the towers and the plugs from moisture. The silicone grease forms a sort of seal that keeps the water out. Just be sure to not put too much as you need some friction of the plug boot to hold the plug wire firmly in place onto the plug so that the little umbrella built into the plug boot seals against the cam cover to prevent water from flowing down into the spark plug well. Look in the electrical section of most any autoparts store for the di-electric grease for that use. Be aware that if a plug boot was leaking and allowing some arcing it may have carbon tracked the plugs even if they are new. If you replace the plug wires it would be a good idea to remove the plugs as you do the wires and wipe the insulators clean and inspect carefully for carbon tracking. Do the same with the coil towers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STS Scott Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 I picked the STS up tonight. And, (drum roll please! lol), It's fixed! The wires were replaced, and all is well again! She accelerates smooth as silk, and boy, accelerate she does! It is nice to have all eight cylinders pumping awat again...there is something about a "seven cylindered" Cadillac that just does not go ever well with me (lol) Larry, I look forward to hearing of a similar story when you get you wires in next week! Hang in there! " ...'took my Cobra down t' the track, hitched to the back o' my Cadillac..." - Jan & Dean, 'hey little cobra' Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 My wife just called me (at work) to tell me the wires were delivered today, somewhere between 1200-1500. WOW! Rock Auto is fast. I ordered them Thursday evening about 1700. I wasn't expecting them til next week. I will be installing them tomorrow (Sunday) morning and I'll report back when I get to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Replaced the wires this morning. That was the problem. She is once again purring like a kitten and running like a thoroubred Thanks to all for the input and support. I was not aware that Delco wires come with a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser for as long as you own the car. Also getting all the conduit and clips back on in the right place was a bit of a pain but all's well that ends well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Replaced the wires this morning. That was the problem. She is once again purring like a kitten and running like a thoroubred Thanks to all for the input and support. I was not aware that Delco wires come with a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser for as long as you own the car. Also getting all the conduit and clips back on in the right place was a bit of a pain but all's well that ends well. TERRIFIC, Its amazing that an ignition wire could feel like a tranny problem isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Yeah, it sure is mike. Most of the time it was distinctivley misfire, but there were just enough symptoms to cast some doubt in my uneducated mind until I read Guru's reply. That and the fact that I can't remember the last time I've had wires go bad. I'm pretty sure the dealer moving them around to do the fuel rail was a contributing factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Larry, I am glad you finally fixed the problem with minimum money involved. Everybody is so scared of possible tranny problem that evey fart (excuse me ladies) the car makes is instantly assosiated with the ransmission. Well... whatever, I am sure you'll go to bed in a good mood tonight, something you did not for a week or so. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Larry, I am glad you finally fixed the problem with minimum money involved. Everybody is so scared of possible tranny problem that evey fart (excuse me ladies) the car makes is instantly assosiated with the ransmission. Well... whatever, I am sure you'll go to bed in a good mood tonight, something you did not for a week or so. Roger that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STS Scott Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Good Stuff! I'm glad to hear that everything worked out! My engine has always had a very slight vibration to it. Not anything to worry about, just not smooth as silk though. It sort of bothered me before...but after experiencing this ordeal, I think I am willing to accept it as a "Character Trait" lol. " ...'took my Cobra down t' the track, hitched to the back o' my Cadillac..." - Jan & Dean, 'hey little cobra' Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iowaboy77 Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 After experiencing similar problems with my eldorado, I had one gm service shop tell me it was the transmission, and priced out a tranny and install. After I regained consciousness, I went to a different GM shop and had an expensive (less than the tranny though) tune up which consisted of new plugs, new wires, and a fuel system flush. Not only did that take care of the problem, but the service center which diagnosed the transmission was nice enough to refund the diagnostic cost because they had been wrong. Imagine if I had swapped out the tranny and still had the problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Glad to hear it. I just wish that would have cured mine. I am leaning more and more toward the FPR due to it running better when cold. I hope to get to it this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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