epricedright Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I just replaced my front and rear rotors and pads and wanted to share a greasy experience I just had so hopefully no one else will have to go through what I just did. When lubing your front caliper pins (mounting bolts and sleeves) and rubber bushings, be sure to use grease specifically designed for disk brakes that has silicone in it. The FSM recommends silicone grease. I went to Pepboys and asked for silicone grease and we went to the grease section and none stated silicone grease per se. The idiot that worked there said any grease would be fine for brake pins. So like an idiot, I believed him. I remembered reading several post that said to use a high temp grease. So that's what I bought. It was the expensive Mystic JT-6 Hi-Temp Multi-purpose grease recommended for disc brake wheel bearings and other high temp. applications. Well that grease doesn't work!! When you 1st put the grease in the bushing, the pin will slide right in & out no problem. But after 5-10 minutes, if you try to slide the pin in & out...NOT. It seizes in there and is hell to get out. So then I tried some Valvoline grease I had in my grease gun, it too was a high temp grease and it didn't work either. So I honed and filed the inside of the caliper bracket thinking there was a clearance problem...as stated in the FSM...no luck still. Well after 2.5 hours of major frustration, I went back to pepboys and spoke with the service manager, and he gave me 2 small packets of brake lubricant by Sil-Glyde that says it's for stopping brake noise, caliper slides, and all contact points, that sold normally for $1.00 each. Put that on and I was in business...no more seizing. I'd buy 2 of those per axle. My fronts had worn unevenly due to the caliper pins seizing; the outboard pads were worn much more than the inboards...1/16 from the squealers. Oddly, my rotors were pitted badly on the inboard side, where I had lots of pad left. I was planning on just turning them, but Pepboys miked them and said they couldn't be turned. So they ripped me for 140.00 for a pair of Raybestos PG Plus rotors for the front. They were 90.00 for the pair at rockauto.com with no sales tax. I was in a pinch though being half my car was hanging out the garage preventing me from being able to lock it up tonight. So they got me. I bought all the other parts at rockauto. Highly recommend them for their great prices and fast shipping. I've ordered brake parts from them twice at around noon and had them at my door the next day using there regular shipping...No B.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitrous1 Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I bought all the other parts at rockauto. Highly recommend them for their great prices and fast shipping. I've ordered brake parts from them twice at around noon and had them at my door the next day using there regular shipping...No B.S. I rebuilt my brake system over the summer (new rotors, calipers, hoses, pads and parking brake cables) with parts from RockAuto. I highly recommend them if you have the time to order the parts in advance. I haven't found anyone who can beat their prices and delivery is usually next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Gotta love rockauto.com... I've been pondering that since I used that high temp grease for the rears too, should I break the rears down again and clean that grease off and replace with silicone grease. If I recall correctly, there weren't tight clearances in the rears between rubber and metal as on the front bushings. But for all the work I've done, I wanta do it right! What do you think...potential problem down the road with non-silicone grease on the rears? Also, be sure to buy the hardware kits when doing your brakes. Much cheaper to order those from rockauto than say Pepboys. And most likely, you'll need them or atleast you should by rights use them. The FSM said to replace all brake hardware when R&R pads or rotors. Of course I didn't read the FSM till I was already into it, therefore forking over dollars unnecesarily to Pepboys, i.e. $18.00 X 2 for the rear hardware kits and 4.95 X 2 for the front bushings...much cheaper at rockauto - by atleast 40%. I'm learning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Epricedright, I'd say that if your rears aren't giving you problems now, don't worry about it. I used the same high-temp grease for wheel bearings on the caliper pins on my old '84 Cutlass when I did front brakes and it wasn't a problem. I also used it on my wife's former '97 Saturn when I put front brakes on it. Perhaps the problem you had was isolated...or I just got lucky. But anyway, I wouldn't tear into the back brakes again if you're not noticing any issues with them. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I was under the impression that OEM GM brakes came with the silicone grease packs for the sliders but I may be wrong I will check in the garage later, I have a new set of GM front brakes out there. This is good information however, if I didn't have the silicone grease, I could see myself reaching for the high-temp wheel bearing grease... I will keep this in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Epricedright, I'd say that if your rears aren't giving you problems now, don't worry about it. I used the same high-temp grease for wheel bearings on the caliper pins on my old '84 Cutlass when I did front brakes and it wasn't a problem. I also used it on my wife's former '97 Saturn when I put front brakes on it. Perhaps the problem you had was isolated...or I just got lucky. But anyway, I wouldn't tear into the back brakes again if you're not noticing any issues with them. My concern I guess is how will I know I'm having a problem with the rears until it's too late...pads worn unevenly or warping of my rear rotors due to caliper sticking or not sliding causing overheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I was under the impression that OEM GM brakes came with the silicone grease packs for the sliders but I may be wrong I will check in the garage later, I have a new set of GM front brakes out there. This is good information however, if I didn't have the silicone grease, I could see myself reaching for the high-temp wheel bearing grease... I will keep this in mind. The Raybestos pads came with a universal grease pack also, but I was told by a service tech guy at Pepboys that that grease pack was meant to be applied to the backing plates to prevent squeaking. That grease was REALLY THICK and NOT slippery at all. I can't imagine that grease would do the trick for the front bushings. Of course he and I could be wrong. Curious, does anyone know for sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry94 Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Most auto parts stores have "slider grease". And it is usually called slider grease. The problem with using a petroleum based grease is that some slider rubber components are actually rubber and the petroleum will cause the rubber to swell and then you really have a problem. Some slider components are plastic based and then the hi temp grease should not be a problem. If you're not sure, then use the slider grease. Around here a tooth paste sized tube of slider grease is about $10.00. I keep one around because it works on many other applications as well. Anti seize on bolt threads, inside of a rad hose(so it doesn't stick to the neck), gas filter threads(so you can remove the filter in a few years time), etc. Barry 2008 STS V82016 Colorado Z711970 Corvette LT-1 Coupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 He's right.. You should really grease up the backing so it doesn't make noises when you hit the brakes (totally separate from the squealing). Most regular high temp good grease will work for calipers, it doesn't have to be anything special although they do make 'caliper grease' that you can get in a small tube or package. Most heavy grease isn't 'slippery' anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I was under the impression that OEM GM brakes came with the silicone grease packs for the sliders but I may be wrong I will check in the garage later, I have a new set of GM front brakes out there. This is good information however, if I didn't have the silicone grease, I could see myself reaching for the high-temp wheel bearing grease... I will keep this in mind. The Raybestos pads came with a universal grease pack also, but I was told by a service tech guy at Pepboys that that grease pack was meant to be applied to the backing plates to prevent squeaking. That grease was REALLY THICK and NOT slippery at all. I can't imagine that grease would do the trick for the front bushings. Of course he and I could be wrong. Curious, does anyone know for sure? I would be reluctant to put grease on the backing plates, pads usually come with an anti-squeal pad when you get them or a pad that is applied when you do the job, grease would tend to pick up dirt. I was under the impression that we were talking about lubing the sliders and the rubber bushings that the sliders ride in. I just checked the the new AC Delco front pads I have and they come with a silicone grease pack that says to inspect the rubber bushings and replace if worn. So the silicone grease looks like the way to go.... By the way the new pads come with a thin anti-squeal plate riveted to the backs of the pads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Most auto parts stores have "slider grease". And it is usually called slider grease. The problem with using a petroleum based grease is that some slider rubber components are actually rubber and the petroleum will cause the rubber to swell and then you really have a problem. Some slider components are plastic based and then the hi temp grease should not be a problem. If you're not sure, then use the slider grease. Barry That makes perfect sense why the bushing seized on the slider, 5 minutes later and not right away. Thanks Barry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Yes, anything that uses rubber as a part of the mechanism you should use silicone grease. Just because it has a rubber cover doesn't mean anything thouhg. look inside.. also on a side note, the grease you put on the back of the pads is only there to reduce vibration to help reduce noise nothing else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 bigfoo, did you see ARNOLD yesterday in Columbus? I thought of you as I listened to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Most regular high temp good grease will work for calipers, it doesn't have to be anything special although they do make 'caliper grease' that you can get in a small tube or package. Most heavy grease isn't 'slippery' anyway I'd have to disagree with that statement. The high temp grease definately didn't work with the rubber bushings on the front caliper...caused the slider to seize in the bushing. The silicone grease that worked was much slippier than the grease that came with the brakes that was supposed to be applied to the back of the plates. The high temp grease was slippery too, but like Barry said, caused the rubber bushing to swell. I imagine I'm not the only one that has mistakenly used the wrong grease. Lot of sticking calipers not sliding causing premature brake failures out there I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 The problem with using a petroleum based grease is that some slider rubber components are actually rubber and the petroleum will cause the rubber to swell and then you really have a problem. Exactly... I have applied a "disc caliper grease" recommended by autoparts store (green stuff). Despite I asked silicon based high temp grease they did not find one and said the green one should be fine. IT WAS NOT. All rubber bushings have been somehow destroyed by that grease - they became soft gel kind and the pins could barely slide. Needless to say both the rotor and outer pad were gone. I believe how much grease you apply to pins and bushings makes difference as well. It should be really thin layer allowing the air to get in and out of the caliper braket bores freely through the grooves on the external surfaces of the rubber sleeves. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Exactly... I have applied a "disc caliper grease" recommended by autoparts store (green stuff). Despite I asked silicon based high temp grease they did not find one and said the green one should be fine. IT WAS NOT. All rubber bushings have been somehow destroyed by that grease - they became soft gel kind and the pins could barely slide. Needless to say both the rotor and outer pad were gone. Yeh, I cleaned my 2 bushings by soaking them in hot water and Dawn for 1/2 hour. The hi temp grease was only on there for a couple hours or so. I imagine if left on there for any extended period of time, they'd be shot! BTW, the manual said to apply grease to the bushings liberally. I wonder why no one has made a post regarding this??? This is so important and it would be so easy for someone to use the wrong grease and ruin their brakes. I imagine most people think grease is grease. I sure did! Plus the auto stores dam near hide the stuff...definately didn't see the silcone grease in the grease section...bunch of B.S. More brakes they can sell that way I guess. Either that, or Caddy's are the only cars that have rubber bushings with tight clearances. I'm taking my my rears apart and demand Pepboys give me 2 more hardware sets since they advised me to use the wrong grease. Heck with cleaning the boots off and all that mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growe3 Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 It is Silicone Grease, NOT petroleum grease, as per the Cadillac Service Manual. The grease must be applied to specific areas in small adequate amounts, not liberally. Note: Front Disk Brake Caliper is described; Rear Disk Brake Caliper is similar. The mounting pins (caliper sliders) need to be clean and free moving. Do not try to remove the sleeve from the bolt, just work it free. I use spray brake cleaner to do this. It works fast and will dry clean very fast without leaving any residue. When clean, sleeve will move without any resistance on the pin. After cleaning the pins, pull the sleeve away from the pinhead and apply a small amount of grease (using the small packet of Silicone Grease that comes with the brake pads) to the exposed inner area. Work the sleeve with a twisting, and back & forth motion to get the grease smeared under the sleeve. Place aside on a clean surface. Clean the rubber bushing on the caliper with spray brake cleaner and a round parts cleaner brush if you have one. Allow a few minutes to dry. Apply a small amount of Silicone Grease to the outside of the pin sleeve. Push the pin into the rubber bushing on the caliper. It will be stiff. Work the pin back and forth until it move smoothly. There will always be some resistance. Reinstall the caliper on the car. After tightening the pins, you should be able to grasp the caliper and move it in and out; it will be a little stiff but should move smoothly. The stiffness helps keep the caliper from “chattering”, but the caliper must move smoothly to stay in proper adjustment. Greasing the back of the brake pads (or any other area) provides no benefit. It does however put grease in an area that gets hot and could allow grease to migrate to the brake pads themselves. Not a sensible idea to pursue. -George Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Like I said, if there are any rubber stuff in there you can't use petroleum based grease. The silicone grease you use everywhere, including to protect your weatherstripping and things like that.. it can even shine up your tires not all calipers have rubber bushings but to be on the safe side, buy a can of silicone base grease and use it on anything where u see rubber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 good post, growe 3! The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I agree, great post growe3...if only you'd made it 2 days ago! I'd add to that post to apply grease to the inside of the bushing...per the caddy manual. Either way though just as long as you get grease in there and work the bolt and sleeve back & forth inside the bushing to grease it well...then wipe off the excess grease. So do you think I should take off the grease I applied to the back of the front pads? I only put a very small amount on them where it came in contact with the caliper. A Pepboys service advisor advised me on doing that. I didn't put in on the rears. I'm getting ready to do some chewing at Pepboys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growe3 Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I agree, great post growe3...if only you'd made it 2 days ago! I'd add to that post to apply grease to the inside of the bushing...per the caddy manual. Either way though just as long as you get grease in there and work the bolt and sleeve back & forth inside the bushing to grease it well...then wipe off the excess grease. So do you think I should take off the grease I applied to the back of the front pads? I only put a very small amount on them where it came in contact with the caliper. A Pepboys service advisor advised me on doing that. I didn't put in on the rears. I'm getting ready to do some chewing at Pepboys! If you only put a small amount on, I would not worry to much. If/when it migrates to the brake pad it will get burned off fairly quickly. If you put a nice generous coating, I would remove the brake pads and wipe it off. Applying silicone grease to the inside of the bushing is a good idea. I use a slim screwdriver to get in there. After putting the pin in and working it back and borth, wipe off any excess grease, so it cannot migrate to the brake pads. Any grease that is not between moving parts, is just wasted and can cause a problem. -George Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I agree, great post growe3...if only you'd made it 2 days ago! I'd add to that post to apply grease to the inside of the bushing...per the caddy manual. Either way though just as long as you get grease in there and work the bolt and sleeve back & forth inside the bushing to grease it well...then wipe off the excess grease. So do you think I should take off the grease I applied to the back of the front pads? I only put a very small amount on them where it came in contact with the caliper. A Pepboys service advisor advised me on doing that. I didn't put in on the rears. I'm getting ready to do some chewing at Pepboys! If you only put a small amount on, I would not worry to much. If/when it migrates to the brake pad it will get burned off fairly quickly. If you put a nice generous coating, I would remove the brake pads and wipe it off. Applying silicone grease to the inside of the bushing is a good idea. I use a slim screwdriver to get in there. After putting the pin in and working it back and borth, wipe off any excess grease, so it cannot migrate to the brake pads. Any grease that is not between moving parts, is just wasted and can cause a problem. -George Yeh, I only put a very very small amount on. I just went to Pepboys, and the manager stated that Raybestos recommends putting that substance on the back of the pads to prevent brake squeak. I say substance because it seemed thicker than grease. I will email or call Raybestos Monday and get to the bottom of what that is and where it's suppose to go. Pepboys gave me another hardware set (they only had one...need 2 for the rears) for free so that should make things a little easier...I'll only have to clean out three boots instead of six...Joy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 It is Silicone Grease, NOT petroleum grease, as per the Cadillac Service Manual. The grease must be applied to specific areas in small adequate amounts, not liberally. Note: Front Disk Brake Caliper is described; Rear Disk Brake Caliper is similar. The mounting pins (caliper sliders) need to be clean and free moving. Do not try to remove the sleeve from the bolt, just work it free. I use spray brake cleaner to do this. It works fast and will dry clean very fast without leaving any residue. When clean, sleeve will move without any resistance on the pin. After cleaning the pins, pull the sleeve away from the pinhead and apply a small amount of grease (using the small packet of Silicone Grease that comes with the brake pads) to the exposed inner area. Work the sleeve with a twisting, and back & forth motion to get the grease smeared under the sleeve. Place aside on a clean surface. Clean the rubber bushing on the caliper with spray brake cleaner and a round parts cleaner brush if you have one. Allow a few minutes to dry. Apply a small amount of Silicone Grease to the outside of the pin sleeve. Push the pin into the rubber bushing on the caliper. It will be stiff. Work the pin back and forth until it move smoothly. There will always be some resistance. Reinstall the caliper on the car. After tightening the pins, you should be able to grasp the caliper and move it in and out; it will be a little stiff but should move smoothly. The stiffness helps keep the caliper from “chattering”, but the caliper must move smoothly to stay in proper adjustment. Greasing the back of the brake pads (or any other area) provides no benefit. It does however put grease in an area that gets hot and could allow grease to migrate to the brake pads themselves. Not a sensible idea to pursue. -George I'd also add, per the FSM, that after bottoming out piston, it's very important to lift the inner edge of the boot next to the piston and press out any trapped air. Also make sure convolutions are tucked back into place. One of my pistons had air in it and the other didn't. Lifting it actually will make it go down...creates a vacuum I guess. The boot shouldn't come in contact with the pad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Oh, I forgot to mention the Pepboys store manager had no clue about silicone grease. He stated he's advised people for years to use regular hi-temp grease for brake jobs. He knew nothing about bushings seizing onto slides with regular grease. Kind of scary actually. And this is his profession! They keep their brake lube on the counter on a little rack thrown in with a bunch of other impulse crap. Couldn't even find it if you knew to look there. I asked him why don't you put this brake lube back where the grease is? He replied I only do what they (corporate) tell me. Come to think of it, they probably figured they'd get stolen if they put them back there where they belong...given their size (the packets are little 2 inch squares). There were no tubs or tubes of silicone grease he knew of in the store. And this Pepboys is a huge store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 the stuff on the back of the pads is just to minimize the vibration which minimizes noises, it really doesn't matter too much what it is as long as it's grease, you put it on the back of the pads because the pads do slide around a bit during normal use and it minimizes the noise the pad makes when it moves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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