tekfx19 Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Ever since i got this car back from the body place i am encountering unrelated problems that have seem to not have anything to do with the repairing the body of the car. I found the problem with the Traction control, and ABS it was a tc0033 i found the right rear wheel sensor unplugged and i plugged it back in. My trunk refused to close and i had to take off the latch and pulldown motor and "refurbish" it. (pretty much opened it up and cleaned the dirt and regreased it) So, im happy that i finally have my first gear back, i drive it for a while enjoying myself for once, and then take it home. when i went out to go somewhere like 2 hours later THE CAR REFUSES to start!!!! (insert explicative anywhere you like) it sits there and cranks and cranks and cranks, never turns over, checked the codes, nothing out of the ordinary, Its like the car is no longer getting gas to the engine. I hear the fuel pump growling every so often and it sounds normal. i went to advance auto parts and bought some starting fluid, sprayed it in the intake and it kicked for a few seconds then quits.......... Can anyone please advise on what to look for, i dont have a fuel pressure gauge so i cant check the pressure. thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 I take it you have gas in your tank. Check to see if you're getting fire to your plugs and if so, maybe replace your fuel filter as a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoo Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Really sounds like the classic running out of gas symptom. If it kicked at all whem you sprayed down the intake then it has some spark.. i bet you either ran out of gas or something clogged the gas line or the pump is going bad. I ran out of gas because my fuel sending unit went bad and said i had a full tank when i had nothing sucked.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 If you have gas and it is firing, I would check the fuel pressure regulator. There could be a pinched line from the accident also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Where was the car damaged from the accident? If it was hit in the back end, the fuel sending unit may have been damaged and/or the float could be stuck. This could lead you to believe there is gas in the tank when it is really empty... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekfx19 Posted September 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 no theres gas in it, it said 5.4 gallons on the diagnostic program and just to make sure i put another gallon in it and it still wont start, when i turn on the car i dont hear the fuel pump right away, i dont think i ever did, but if i sit in the car with the acc on i can hear it growling every so often. It was driving perfect one hour and the next nothing and this is a week after i got it back, so i dont understand how line damage would cause a problem so late, i checked all the applicable fuses, are there any other fuses that could cause gas no to get to where it needs to go that i do not know about ? thx for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 I'd replace the fuel filter. Wouldn't hurt anyhow, as preventive maintenance, even if that's not the source of your problem. Are you getting spark to your plugs? Where exaclty was your car damaged or repaired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekfx19 Posted September 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 it was it on the passenger side and and the driver side rear quarter, but the damage didnt go up to the fuel door, how often does a fuel filter completely clog without any kind of warning, the only thing i really wonder about is when am i supposed to hear the fuel pump, in the beginning when i put the key in? also i put starting fluid and it started for a sec, so spark isnt the problem, im really starting to dislike my vehicle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Fuel filters have clogged on me several times in the past, and as best as I can recall, the fuel flow stopped with no warning. One tank of crappy gas is all it takes sometimes. I believe the fuel pump comes on whenever the fuel pressure is low enough, not necessarily always at start up. Maybe someone could give us a more definitive answer. Since you were hit in the rear quarter panels, I'm thinking maybe it could be a fuel line that was partly pinched off from the accident or the body shop guys, and some crud has become lodged in there where it's pinched and now it's completely blocked. That could explain how it's maybe related to the accident, but not showing up till a week later. Look under the car and follow the fuel line from the tank on and see if there's a slight pinch somewhere. If it's not the fuel line or filter, I'd be inclined to think it's your fuel pump that's gone south. but if i sit in the car with the acc on i can hear it growling every so often. Doesn't sound right that you can hear your fuel pump growling every so often with the car not running. Not sure if that's normal or not??? Good luck finding your problem and try not to get discouraged. It could be worse you know, you could be stranded out of town somewhere, at a place you'd rather not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 no theres gas in it, it said 5.4 gallons on the diagnostic program and just to make sure i put another gallon in it and it still wont start, when i turn on the car i dont hear the fuel pump right away, i dont think i ever did, but if i sit in the car with the acc on i can hear it growling every so often. It was driving perfect one hour and the next nothing and this is a week after i got it back, so i dont understand how line damage would cause a problem so late, i checked all the applicable fuses, are there any other fuses that could cause gas no to get to where it needs to go that i do not know about ? thx for the help Check for voltage at the fuel pump connector when the ignition is initially turned to the ON position. If you do not have voltage, check the fuel pump relay. If good, you need to drop the tank. If the pump wires are burned, replace the pump and the wiring harness. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 CHECK YOUR FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR. The same thing happened to my 92 Deville, it would not start but it would fire. I put a new regulator on it and it was good as new. It would be nice if you could check your fuel pressure also. This would tell you where to look too. FPR is about $75-100 and easy to install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 You definately have a fuel delivery problem. It is possible that the accident jarred something loose (fuel tank crud or an electrical connection). The fuel pump normaly should not be heard unless you listen very close in a very quiet spot or put your ear to the opened filler pipe. The pump turns on when the key is turned on and will run for about 3 seconds and then shut off if the engine is not cranked. Once the engine is cranked and running the pump runs continuosly, but you should not hear any "growling". I would put a pressure guage on it and see what you have. I have seen some pumps go just like you discribe, ran fine, shut it off and no start afterwards. The pump died in it's sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekfx19 Posted September 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Does anyone know the procedure for fuel filter removal? do i need to depressurize anything? is it the little round cylinder underneath my driver side rear door? ill take it out and replace it, ill also check for any kinks. Thanks for all the advice, i wouldnt know where id be without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 You can depressurize the fuel system by depressing the schrader valve on the fuel rail. If the car sits overnight, there shouldn't be that much pressure. Use a shop towel to soak up the excess fuel. I usually attach a fuel pressure gage to the schrader fitting and then put the drain line from the gage into a gas can and press the relief button on the tester. The fittings on the fuel filter are quick-type connections. Rotate them 90 degrees in each direction, blow off any dirt with compressed air and then depress the tabs and pull the line off. Have a pan handy to catch the spilled fuel... When installing the new filter, coat the nipples with motor oil to make installation easier and to prevent leaks. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekfx19 Posted September 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 ok heres what i did, i changed the fuel filter, and i couldnt blow through the old one so i knew it was clogged. When i put the new one one VIOLA! it worked it turned on and i hit the gas and revved it a bit. I was so happy. 5 buck fix for the not starting problem. So about 25 minutes later i went to start my car and go fill up because of the hurricane and it started, then it sputtered and sputtered then died. i started it again and it died, so then when i tried to start it again it was doing it again, cranking and cranking. i opened up the fuel pressure regulator and i didnt see any fuel sputtering out of it, is there supposed to be? Also how strong is the pressure from the vac line that plugs into the side of it supposed to be. THE PROBLEM HAS TO BE BETWEEN THE FUEL FILTER AND THE PRESSURE REGULATOR. If anyone knows if this isnt the case please reply. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 No, there should not be any fuel coming out of that vacuum line. The vacuum will vary with throttle position (engine vacuum). I would bet the filter is clogged again. The accident probably jarred loose years of sediment in the tank or you just got one god awful bad tanks of gas. Personally I will never fill up at a station that has a truck unloading. If there is any sediment in the undergraound tank, it is being thrown into suspension when the tanker dumps his load. You may need to change it several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekfx19 Posted September 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 i thought about that, so i took off the fuel filter again and blew through it, it seemed fine, and just to make sure, i blew through my old one and the difference was still tremendous. i dont think its my fuel filter any more, would it be possible that something could clog the line after the fuel filter ?? Also i know that no fuel was supposed to be sputtered out through the vacuum line, i was asking what would happen if i took off my fuel pressure regulator and attempt to start the car, shouldnt fuel drip out everywhere from below where the FPR sits? Also i didnt feel any kind of pressure from the vac line when i disconnected it from the FPR and put my finger over it when my dad was trying to start the car. Should i bring back the fuel filter even tho i can still blow through it easily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 I would keep the new fuel filter on the car. It sounds as if you needed it. Sorry, I missunderstood the FPR question. No, if you remove the FPR from the rail and try to start the car it will not leak, it will spout like old faithfull. Remember, if the pump is working correctly, there is close to 50 psi behind the FPR. There probably won't be an awful lot of vacuum when cranking. May be hard to detect without a guage but you should feel it when running. And, no, I doubt anything could get past the filter to clog up anything beyond it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekfx19 Posted September 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 ok cuz when i took off the fpr it wasnt spouting at all, it was dry as a bone. so i guess i surmised correctly when i said it was between the F. filter and the FPR, when i took off the newer filter there was pressure down there, but no spouting up by the engine................hmmmmm i wish i knew what was going on here. ill try it again with everything on, and then press the shraeder valve to see what comes out, OH one more thing, should i have had the fpr atached to the vac line while it was removed from the car? cuz it wasnt. maybe for fuel to spirt out i need to have it on the vac line. i dont know thx for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 I don't think the vacuum line needs to be attatched to start the car. If you turned the key on with the FPR removed and there was no fuel squirting out after replacing the filter, then I would think the fuel pump took a dive, fuel pump fuese was blown or the relay quit. In any case it appears that you have no fuel pressure. Put a fuel pressure guage on the schreader valve, then turn the key on to energize the pump and pressurise the system and see what kind of pressure you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekfx19 Posted September 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 yes, i read in a post that u can find those anywhere, well i went to advance auto parts and they didnt have one, just tire pressure gauges, any tips on where i can get one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Auto Zone, Napa, Carquest, probably even Kmart or Walmart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekfx19 Posted September 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 Well i found a fuel guage, bloody hell!! 36 dollars!?! im thinkin i pretty much know that the pressure is gonna be lower than usual because the car doesnt start, unless its an electrical problem, its either the fuel pump, or theres a blockage in the line before the fuel filter, as i said before, i get no spirting with the pressure regulator off, so that means the fuel isnt getting to that point, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekfx19 Posted September 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 im thinkin maybe the fuel pump has been under too much stress or something and then now that the blockage has been removed, it just maybe kicked out? i dunno but this is beginning to go beyond my abilities seeing how i have to drop the tank to get to the pump. If anyone knows otherwise please let me know, thanks alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 I'm still inclined to believe that there's a kink or crud is clogging your fuel line, being your filter was clogged. Take the fuel filter off and turn on your ignition (fuel pump) and see if any fuel spurts out of your line. If so, there's probably a clog or kink in your fuel line between your filter and FPR. Blow through that line with the FPR off and see if it's clear. If you get no fuel to the filter, then there may be a clog or kink between your fuel pump and fuel filter. If you're getting fuel to your FPR, I believe there's a return fuel line that goes from the FPR back to the tank that may be kinked or clogged. I'd do your best to eliminate the possibility of a fuel line blockage as the fuel pump replacement can be somewhat costly, especially if you don't do it yourself. Good Luck and please post back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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