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2003 DeVille DHS stalls intermittently (seems temp related)


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Hi, I am the new guy who would appreciate any help with this. Thanks

My 2003 DeVille DHS with 80k miles stalls intermittently and then can be restarted with some difficulty (5+ seconds of cranking). The stall can occur at idle or highway speed and anywhere inbetween. At highway speed recovery is almost immediate (way less than 1 second) but causes quite a jolt to the vehicle as engine power goes to zero and then returns to normal. Usually the stall happens when the coolant temp gauge needle is pointing at ten o'clock on the way up to normal temp pointing straight up. Could this be a temp sensor contact bouncing when telling the computer to switch from open loop to closed loop control? Or a temp sensor contact that is slow to move?

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This sounds like bad crank sensors, but you should check for DTC codes

Go to the top of this page, click caddyinfo.com, how to, DTC codes, and follow the directions on how to retrieve the codes for your year and post them here

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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A common problem with these engines and can be corrected by replacing one or both of the crank sensors.

Not necessarily. I just had both of mine replaced and relearned at the stealership and the engine failure is still present. I say class action suit. GM must know about this failure and the stealerships just give people the same old run-around. replace this that and the third. Good luck.

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A common problem with these engines and can be corrected by replacing one or both of the crank sensors.

Not necessarily. I just had both of mine replaced and relearned at the stealership and the engine failure is still present. I say class action suit. GM must know about this failure and the stealerships just give people the same old run-around. replace this that and the third. Good luck.

How about good luck locating an attorney that would waste his/her time even talking to someone about a class action against GM/Cadillac involving alleged vehicle parts failure that have not caused damage to the consumer.

If someone feels they have been damaged by faulty diagnosis and subsequent ineffective parts replacement at a repair facility, that is a matter for local small claims court. And the burden of proof is on the someone!

Jim

Drive your car.

Use your cell phone.

CHOOSE ONE !

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A common problem with these engines and can be corrected by replacing one or both of the crank sensors.

Not necessarily. I just had both of mine replaced and relearned at the stealership and the engine failure is still present. I say class action suit. GM must know about this failure and the stealerships just give people the same old run-around. replace this that and the third. Good luck.

Explain engine failure? It still stalls?

Your FIRST POST here is so full of assumptions. Cadillac does not have a stalling FAILURE that you ASSUME GM is aware of.

If you know anything about these cars you know that a 98 would set a code that the CRANK SENSOR is bad, they just don't just PARTS REPLACE for the sake of parts replacing

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Out of three people I know who drive cadillac's, all three have had this same exact problem. Two of them sold their cars because of this problem. I'm not taking that road. I have also read on forum after forum about this problem. I've talked to a few local shops that have seen this problem repeatedly. You're telling me that the GM guys dont know about this problem...fat chance. I was exaggerating about the class action suit chum. This is CLEARLY a manufacturer's defect! And sir, when a car stalls when you are driving you lose all power and your brakes barely stop you and it is extremely difficult to steer at slow speed. I'm willing to bet my life on it that there has been more than a handful of accidents due to this stalling problem. And the STEALERship has to "guess" what the problem is C'MON!

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I have been here over 10 years, and I am familiar with typical problems the Northstar can experience, and you are mistaken about the stalling issue being a chronic problem. I dont doubt you have the problem but its not a chronic across the board problem.

Stalling is not common, crank sensors had a bad run, and were a problem in say 2002 to 2003, but I have a 96 that NEVER had them replaced. In addition, GM had a bad run of CATS about 2001, and they have issues with timing chains, and rear diff problems... but stalling has NOT been a chronic issue

The problem is that many cars have not had EXPERIENCED mechanics working on them over their lifetime, a dealer can only do so much in the time alloted, these cars as they get older require full time attention to details if you are relying on mechanics as they age you are at a disadvantage, dealer or no dealer.

You have not given any details of your STALLING problem is it setting codes?

You will learn something about me, your first post came here talking about class action suits etc, we FIX problems, we are not a complaint sounding board, NOR are we going to put up with malcontents, see the top of this page, it says ENTHUSIAST... Now that you have aired yourself, if you want to fix the problem, start a thread of your own giving details of the stalling, and keep the VENOM out.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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A common problem with these engines and can be corrected by replacing one or both of the crank sensors.

What are you trying to say here?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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A common problem with these engines and can be corrected by replacing one or both of the crank sensors.

If you are using that as a "EXPERT" reference to back up your claim... you may want to rethink your position.

If you will notice...marcedison only has 4 post on this forum in all the time he has been a member.

He may well be an "EXPERT"...but we don't know that.

His bonafides have not been established on this forum.

You still haven't stated what your current problem is...

It is hard to try to help you, if we don't know the issues you are having.

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I was waiting for his response Jim about why he quoted that.

It is NOT a common problem, it was a failure mode in the 2003 engines due to a bad lot of crank sensors, replace the 2 sensors and your were good to go, the problem did NOT continue once the crank sensors were replaced.

As I said, my 96 had 130K and the crank sensors were never replaced. Crank sensors do not go bad often

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I was waiting for his response Jim about why he quoted that.

It is NOT a common problem, it was a failure mode in the 2003 engines due to a bad lot of crank sensors, replace the 2 sensors and your were good to go, the problem did NOT continue once the crank sensors were replaced.

As I said, my 96 had 130K and the crank sensors were never replaced. Crank sensors do not go bad often

To be fair and accurate, the crank sensors on Model Year(MY) 2000, 2001, 2002, and early 2003 NorthStars (4.6), ShortStars (3.5) and AuroaStars (4.0) are a very common problem. I think it is fair to say that GM got a really bad batch of Mexican made sensors where the soldier inside of the sensor is not of a quality to take repetitive heat/cooling cycles. Somewhere between almost all and 100% of these sensors will fail after a certain number of warm up and cool down cycles... and for most owners this occurred right around 50,000 miles. They fail in a flaky intermittent sort of way and often do not trigger an ODBII code. Many were repaired under warranty, many were not.

NorthStars outside of the 2000-2003 year range have next to ZERO problems with the crank sensors... And the cars that were repaired (assuming that the dealer/customer/independent garage was smart enough to replace BOTH) are rock solid too.. The new sensors are easy to spot, they are a different color, with a different part number and are stamped "Made in Japan". I think they are made be Denso (Toyota)... though I haven't notice any acceleration increase in my car since the sensors were replaced. (sorry, bad joke)

I figured by now these would have all been swapped out. I guess if you are lucky enough to come across a ultra low mile car in the year range above there is a chance that the original sensor are still there. If there is no record of these sensors being replaced, I would do this proactively. I know I had my car "conk out" on more then one occasion... once in a left hand turn situation and it nearly resulted in a serious accident.

They are not hard to replace, though the space is cramped an things are in the way (now there is a surprise) but this can be done by any backyard mechanic who is capable of replacing brake pads... So far I have replaced 4 pairs of these sensors on cars belonging to friends and family. I know of ZERO cars in the MY range above that have gone over 70,000 miles on the OE sensor. I suspect that they all fail.

There ya go, now you know everything there is to know about NorthStar Cranky Sensors

Edited by OynxSTS

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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A common problem with these engines and can be corrected by replacing one or both of the crank sensors.
Not necessarily. I just had both of mine replaced and relearned at the stealership and the engine failure is still present. I say class action suit. GM must know about this failure and the stealerships just give people the same old run-around. replace this that and the third. Good luck.

I am aware that crank sensors are problematic in certain years, I didnt detail all years, but what got me stirred up was that this fellow presented this as a chronic problem (see bold above), he replaced his and the problem still continued...

Plus he later said: Out of three people I know who drive cadillac's, all three have had this same exact problem.

Two of them sold their cars because of this problem. I'm not taking that road

He presented this as a chronic UNSOLVABLE problem, and THAT is not true with regard to the crank sensors, once they are replaced the problem is solved.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Thank you folks for your sharing your experience with me. I did check the codes as suggested and did get a PCM P0335 history "Loss of Crankshaft Position Sensor A"

Can mere mortals change out these sensors without a service station hoist? All I have is a floor jack and jack stands. I am pretty good with tools. I have the shop manual for the car but it is not overly helpful.

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Thank you folks for your sharing your experience with me. I did check the codes as suggested and did get a PCM P0335 history "Loss of Crankshaft Position Sensor A"

Can mere mortals change out these sensors without a service station hoist? All I have is a floor jack and jack stands. I am pretty good with tools. I have the shop manual for the car but it is not overly helpful.

Yes...several people have changed them.

I would highly recommend changing both of them.

I do not know the "EXACT" procedure, but several other people do.

Hopefully they will see this and post the procedure.

I think you need to remove the oil filter adapter to gain access to one of them, but changing them out is do-able by any one that is halfway handy with tools.

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Its a little tight, but later Ill post some photo/scans of the area so you can see what you are getting into

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Thank you folks for your sharing your experience with me. I did check the codes as suggested and did get a PCM P0335 history "Loss of Crankshaft Position Sensor A"

Can mere mortals change out these sensors without a service station hoist? All I have is a floor jack and jack stands. I am pretty good with tools. I have the shop manual for the car but it is not overly helpful.

Yes you can change them using jackstands Clearance is limited, though.

People have used several different ways. The method I used working under my DHS was to use a very small short handle ratchet and snaked my arms between the block and frame to the Crankshaft sensors to unbolt and remove them.

The replacement procedure is not hard, just very tight spaces.

Edited by mike27513
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I agree with Ranger, removing the oil filter adapter makes it MUCH easier to access the sensors. Make sure you order new oil filter adapter seals there are two. Someone recently tried to replace the sensors and ignored our advice and broke the crank sensor connector trying to get it off....

Here is a photo of its location

CrankSensorLocation.gif

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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....Can mere mortals change out these sensors without a service station hoist? All I have is a floor jack and jack stands.

Yes. Easily.

I will add to the advice you have been given by saying

Remove the bottom plastic fill panel between the rear of the bumper cover and the front of the engine cradle as a first step.

Then remove the oil filter.

Then remove the oil filter adapter (optional).

The picture will give you an idea of where the sensors are located (the brown and black items mounted above and below the crankcase center line split).

post-16-128036688797_thumb.jpg

Jim

Drive your car.

Use your cell phone.

CHOOSE ONE !

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great photo Jim

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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