Clearance on my wheel

[cyrez00]

Hi guys,

Once again i need your help.

On the left front wheel, when lifted and i grab the wheel in the 12 and 6 position i can feel a little clearance (about a millimeter)

I figured that it must be the Ball joint which was screwed up and ordered a new one (2 actually, one for each side)

Just installed the new one and when finally finished i grabbed the wheel in the 6 o'clock position again and the clearance is still there.

When i feel in the 3 and 9 position i do not feel any clearance at all.

Am a bit at loss.. you guys any idea where this clearance is coming from before i start replacing everything under there.

Thanks in advance for your input!

Marc.

[Dadillac]

Make sure that before you start the 12 and 6 o'clock wiggle, that the car is supported by the control arm. Use a jack stand and put the cars weight on it. What you may be feeling is the tire moving straight up and down due to slight spring compression. By supporting the control arm, you will eliminate the possibility of feeling that. If you still feel the play, either the strut bolts are loose, the control arm bushings are shot, or the bearing is shot.

Don

[cyrez00]

Make sure that before you start the 12 and 6 o'clock wiggle, that the car is supported by the control arm. Use a jack stand and put the cars weight on it. What you may be feeling is the tire moving straight up and down due to slight spring compression. By supporting the control arm, you will eliminate the possibility of feeling that. If you still feel the play, either the strut bolts are loose, the control arm bushings are shot, or the bearing is shot.

Don

Thanks for responding Dadillac.

If the Bearing is shot then i would need to feel the play in the 3 and 9 position as well?

With the strut bolts, you mean the connection of the weel assembly thingy (whatever its called) connecting to the lower strut? (with 2 bolts) i believe its called knuckle in English?

I don't think it's spring compression there i can clearly feel a wiggle on the car when driving which would indicate 'play' somewhere.

Thanks

Marc,

[Ranger]

If the Bearing is shot then i would need to feel the play in the 3 and 9 position as well?

Yes.

Have someone wiggle the wheel while you watch the suspension from underneath. Where the play is should become evident.

[cyrez00]

If the Bearing is shot then i would need to feel the play in the 3 and 9 position as well?

Yes.

Have someone wiggle the wheel while you watch the suspension from underneath. Where the play is should become evident.

Most curious thing.

When i installed the joint yesterday i installed the wheel and instantly checked the play, which was still there.

When i drove this morning for a while and got it jacked up again to start above troubleshooting procedures the play was completely gone.

Could it be that the play was still there because i hadn't lowered the car yet and stuff needed to set itself in place?

Anyway, the wiggle on my steer is completely gone as well now but only my steer is a little off-center to the left since.

Will do the joint on the right hand side as well and then bring it to the garage for a wheel alignment.

Thanks for your responses and support!

Marc.

[cyrez00]

ok.... and the story continious....

The wiggle was gone for a short moment.. probably because i jacked the car and lowered it again.

Got to a garage today, the guy checked it out and diagnosed it as the upper strut/shock bushing, not sure that's the correct name in english but it's the round rubber plate on top of the shock.

Ordered a replacement today and it will hopefully arrive somewhere next week (yup... hard to get parts for Caddy out here )

Anyway, trying to prepare myself for it and see what needs to be done.

In the FSM i can't seem to find a lot on what needs to be done in replacing this other then how to dismount the complete strut assembly which needs to be done anyway.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how to approach this?

Other suggestions like replacing something else whilst i'm there anyway are very welcome as well.

Thanks guys.

Marc.

[BodybyFisher]

That is your strut mount, it sits at the top of the strut, here is a completed assembly and an expanded view. Here is a link to my front end rebuild

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...;hl=strut+mount

[cyrez00]

That is your strut mount, it sits at the top of the strut, here is a completed assembly and an expanded view. Here is a link to my front end rebuild

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...;hl=strut+mount

Thanks! you gave me quite some reading food there, somehow i missed this one when i was doing my search on the board.

[BodybyFisher]

That is your strut mount, it sits at the top of the strut, here is a completed assembly and an expanded view. Here is a link to my front end rebuild

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...;hl=strut+mount

Thanks! you gave me quite some reading food there, somehow i missed this one when i was doing my search on the board.

No problem post if you need help, I have had these front ends apart many times, Mike

[cyrez00]

This is slowly becoming a nightmare.

Ordered the parts about 2.5 weeks ago and obviously they still didn't arrive. (real drama sometimes getting parts over here)

Got pissed off with the local supplier and cancelled the order, then ordered them via Rockauto. delivery date is currently set to 1st August.

The clearance has become so much since these last 2 weeks that i now don't want to drive the car anymore being afraid i do more damage then only the strut mount .

Wheel is shuddering etc. and when going trough a bump the car has the tendency to jump sideways.

Both front wheels are also out of line because of the Ball joints which were replaced earlier but because of above i like to wait with aligning the car.

just wanted to give an update for anyone who might be remotely interested

[BodybyFisher]

Its a shame its so difficult to get parts by you. Its beginning to sound like there is some opportunity here to help our friends on that side of the ocean. I would be careful with the car, its sounding bad to me. What are you replacing, the ball joints?

[cyrez00]

Thanks Mike, i missed your post in this thread.

Actually i was replacing the strut mounts on both sides and this afternoon i finished.

Put all together again and hey gues what..... clearance still there.

Got pissed off with it and janked out the wheel bearing.

When on the bench i could feel a little space coming from the bearing but only in certain positions (which would explain my problem with 3-9 and 12-6 o'clock)

Basically i replaced the ball joints and the strut mounts which only leaves the wheel bearing / Arm rubber and the strut itself.

The arm rubber seemed ok when put under pressure.

I don't believe it's the shock because there was no sign of leakage etc. and it just looked really well.

That only leaves the wheel bearing.

Ordered it and it will be delivered on Friday i was told. (so this time it's not that bad. a more common part around here then the strut mounts i suppose.)

Thanks for offering help for this side of the ocean though! i will gladly use it when i really get stuck in the future (no worries.. only as a LAST resort)

Marc.

[BodybyFisher]

Thanks Mike, i missed your post in this thread.

Actually i was replacing the strut mounts on both sides and this afternoon i finished.

Put all together again and hey gues what..... clearance still there.

Got pissed off with it and janked out the wheel bearing.

When on the bench i could feel a little space coming from the bearing but only in certain positions (which would explain my problem with 3-9 and 12-6 o'clock)

Basically i replaced the ball joints and the strut mounts which only leaves the wheel bearing / Arm rubber and the strut itself.

The arm rubber seemed ok when put under pressure.

I don't believe it's the shock because there was no sign of leakage etc. and it just looked really well.

That only leaves the wheel bearing.

Ordered it and it will be delivered on Friday i was told. (so this time it's not that bad. a more common part around here then the strut mounts i suppose.)

Thanks for offering help for this side of the ocean though! i will gladly use it when i really get stuck in the future (no worries.. only as a LAST resort)

Marc.

Any play at all in that hub bearing is not good. I think you found your problem. Given the parts you replaced, your handling should improve form it so its not wasted. Let me know if I can help, Mike

[cyrez00]

And so for all you guys and galls out there.. i have a new piece of knowledge which i would like to share with you.

If a wheel has signs of play on 12 and 6 o'clock but nothing at all on 3 and 9 o'clock it would be logical to rule out the hub bearing.

WRONG!!!!!!!!

above symptoms were exactly what i had and it turned out to be the hub bearing anyway.

I don't know why as well and to be honest..... i don't care! (if someone would like to disect the old bearing i'm willing to ship it out but let me know quickly because it's already in the trashcan)

Alignment scheduled for tomorrow morning early and then i should have my sweet ride back.

For all who made input into this topic... thanks for showing support (albeit remotely without handing me a beer etc.) it's much appreciated.

[BodybyFisher]

That was a hard one to diagnose, thanks for sharing your experience with us. If we (or I) can help you over there let us know, Mike

[navion]

And so for all you guys and galls out there.. i have a new piece of knowledge which i would like to share with you.

If a wheel has signs of play on 12 and 6 o'clock but nothing at all on 3 and 9 o'clock it would be logical to rule out the hub bearing.

WRONG!!!!!!!!

above symptoms were exactly what i had and it turned out to be the hub bearing anyway.

I don't know why as well and to be honest..... i don't care! (if someone would like to disect the old bearing i'm willing to ship it out but let me know quickly because it's already in the trashcan)

Alignment scheduled for tomorrow morning early and then i should have my sweet ride back.

For all who made input into this topic... thanks for showing support (albeit remotely without handing me a beer etc.) it's much appreciated.

Cyr,

If you think about it, the inner bearing races are stationary on the spindle. That means that the most wear will be concentrated on the lower portion of the inner races.

On the outer races, which turn with the hub and wheel, the wear is distributed around the total outer race surface.

So if there is wear present, it would be detectable in the 12 and 6 o'clock position, but not at the 9 and 3 o'clock position.

I hope that this repair takes care of your problems.

Britt

[cyrez00]

If you think about it, the inner bearing races are stationary on the spindle. That means that the most wear will be concentrated on the lower portion of the inner races.

On the outer races, which turn with the hub and wheel, the wear is distributed around the total outer race surface.

So if there is wear present, it would be detectable in the 12 and 6 o'clock position, but not at the 9 and 3 o'clock position.

I hope that this repair takes care of your problems.

Britt

Brit,

It has taken care of my problem and when driving i'm having a grin on my face again.

The way you explain it does make sense but i'm not entirely convinced that the races are stationary on either side of the inner bearing.

Normally they are free floating and not only turning themselves but also turning within the bearing housing?

Thanks

Marc.

[navion]

If you think about it, the inner bearing races are stationary on the spindle. That means that the most wear will be concentrated on the lower portion of the inner races.

On the outer races, which turn with the hub and wheel, the wear is distributed around the total outer race surface.

So if there is wear present, it would be detectable in the 12 and 6 o'clock position, but not at the 9 and 3 o'clock position.

I hope that this repair takes care of your problems.

Britt

Brit,

It has taken care of my problem and when driving i'm having a grin on my face again.

The way you explain it does make sense but i'm not entirely convinced that the races are stationary on either side of the inner bearing.

Normally they are free floating and not only turning themselves but also turning within the bearing housing?

Thanks

Marc.

Hi Mark,

Anti friction bearings are composed of three elements. An inner race that is mounted on a stationary shaft, such as a spindle. An outer race that is mounted in a rotating member, such as a wheel hub, and an element that has caged balls or rollers.

In a Timken bearing, the inner race and caged rollers is an assembly and commonly called a "cone". The outer race is called a "cup".

Ball bearings usually come as an assembly. The outer race contains the balls and spacer and the inner race as a unit.

Now, a front wheel drive hub, such as on your Cadillac, is a little different, in that the outer bearing race is held stationary, while the inner race turns with the wheel and axle.

The wear process is still the same, though, the stationary race will wear where it sees it's greatest load. That is why you were getting movement at the 6 and 12 o'clock position and not at the 3 and 9 o'clock position.

If you still have your bearing/hub assembly, you will notice that the outer housing is bolted to the suspension and remains stationary while the wheel hub and inner bearing race is free to turn.

Anyway, I am glad that this has taken care of your problem. I hope that you have many more trouble free miles.

Britt