Marika Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 When I bought my car back in August, 2003, the third brake light was burnt out on the driver side (aren't they all). I purchased a new third brake light from the dealership and the bodyshop installed it. I just noticed today that it's taking on condensation, of all places, on the driver side... What should I do about this? I'll be damned if I have to buy another one and I won't drive around with this one also being half burnt out, it looks tacky and the cops go after you in this state. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 I would ask the dealer / body shop manager about any possible warranty situation (OEM parts, dealer installed). Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted April 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 I paid $300 for a part that came with a 90 Day Warranty, therefore, the part is no longer warranted. I spoke with the owner of the body shop, it's a sealed light and therefore, there's nothing special about installing it. I double checked this in the manual and he's correct. Therefore, the light apparently is not properly sealed when it is manufactured otherwise, why would condensation get inside? At this point, I'm very pissed..... If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Cannot blame you for being upset. Maybe Logan can offer some guidance. See http://www.logandiagnostic.com/ for an email link. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted April 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Cannot blame you for being upset. Maybe Logan can offer some guidance. See http://www.logandiagnostic.com/ for an email link. Thanks, I just sent him an e-mail directing him to this post. Hopefully he can advise me and it will be something simple like removing the light and resealing it with epoxy resin or something like that. Or, maybe the LED's are actually sealed and in a separate area from where the condensation is forming. I'm sure he'll know what to do. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67coupedeville Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Buy another tail light, put it in the car at another body shop or automotive shop, and take back the old one within a week or two and tell them you had this light in for two weeks and its got condensation in it. As long as you have your original receipt (for the second one) they shouldn't give you any problems. Tell them you want your money back! Better than buying another new one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Marika, If it were mine, I'd remove the light (shouldn't be too hard). Logan has details on his site. Then drill a small hole on each end on the back side. Use a vacuum on one hole to get air flow through it. That should dry it out. Then reseal the holes and seams with clear silicone caulk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg P. Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Buy another tail light, put it in the car at another body shop or automotive shop, and take back the old one within a week or two and tell them you had this light in for two weeks and its got condensation in it. As long as you have your original receipt (for the second one) they shouldn't give you any problems. Tell them you want your money back! Better than buying another new one . I'm sorry but that is really unethical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Water intrusion. Being the new lamp is 1/2 burned out its scrap. The $300 and 90 warranty is one problem. Most GM parts....even electronic parts, typically come with a 1 year warranty. What happened? Hmmm 1- The lamp may have been leaking since day one. There is a way to vacuum test these lamps. 20% of the ones we have come in leak. Not bad leaks....but they have to be detected and repaired. Its the first thing we check. 2- The lamp install may have been rushed. This can push the electrical pigtail gasket out of position out of place...and create a leak. Problem is, the electrical pigtail is way over on the passeger side. So this is unlikely the cause of the leak. 3- Overtightened studs. Human nature typically has people overtighten nuts. On the 92-97 lamps this can cause a hairline crack/leak at the lamp seam. This is where we see most leaks. Again not bad leaks....but they need to be fixed. 4- Did you really get a new lamp? Or did the dealership try to repair it? Attempted repairs are the #2 killer of the lamps (broken end tips are #1.) The amount of time involved makes me lean toward a rebuilt lamp with 90 day warranty. 4-5-6 month failures sound about right. And your out $300 bucks with no core lamp. If it was a rebuilt lamp, you are out of luck. If in fact its a new lamp...I would try to push the 1 year warranty. As for silicone. It will not work on the lamps. The lamps are like long sealed tubes. When they sit in the sun the pressure will actually go up inside the lamp. It doesnt take much pressure and the silicone will blow out...and leak...then fail. Dead lamp. This is a shot of one of ours..... you can see the studs, pigtail, housing seam etc. This is actually a brand new one that needed a new LED repair. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Oh yeah...the picture also shows the vacuum port. Its where the yellow witness paint mark is. This one passed the vacuum test. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67coupedeville Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Unehtical, perhaps, but I currently am doing a job practicum at a GM dealer...mark up is 100% on all parts. If you go into a GM service department asking why your transmission will not shift into fourth gear, they will tell you you need a rebuild, even though you may only need a set of solenoids. In my opinion, that door can swing both ways. Ever heard the Johnny Cash song "One Piece At A Time"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 The 100% markup is fairly typical. I have a friend at a Mazda dealer who says they do the same thing. I still would not be comfortable doing the fake return thing unless the lamp looked like it was brand new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted April 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Water intrusion. Being the new lamp is 1/2 burned out its scrap. The $300 and 90 warranty is one problem. Most GM parts....even electronic parts, typically come with a 1 year warranty. What happened? Hmmm 1- The lamp may have been leaking since day one. There is a way to vacuum test these lamps. 20% of the ones we have come in leak. Not bad leaks....but they have to be detected and repaired. Its the first thing we check. 2- The lamp install may have been rushed. This can push the electrical pigtail gasket out of position out of place...and create a leak. Problem is, the electrical pigtail is way over on the passeger side. So this is unlikely the cause of the leak. 3- Overtightened studs. Human nature typically has people overtighten nuts. On the 92-97 lamps this can cause a hairline crack/leak at the lamp seam. This is where we see most leaks. Again not bad leaks....but they need to be fixed. 4- Did you really get a new lamp? Or did the dealership try to repair it? Attempted repairs are the #2 killer of the lamps (broken end tips are #1.) The amount of time involved makes me lean toward a rebuilt lamp with 90 day warranty. 4-5-6 month failures sound about right. And your out $300 bucks with no core lamp. If it was a rebuilt lamp, you are out of luck. If in fact its a new lamp...I would try to push the 1 year warranty. As for silicone. It will not work on the lamps. The lamps are like long sealed tubes. When they sit in the sun the pressure will actually go up inside the lamp. It doesnt take much pressure and the silicone will blow out...and leak...then fail. Dead lamp. This is a shot of one of ours..... you can see the studs, pigtail, housing seam etc. This is actually a brand new one that needed a new LED repair. hmmmmm....I guess my original post was not clear. The lamp is taking on condensation on the driver side, but it's not burnt out, not yet anyway. I think I'll harass the dealership a bit and see if I can squeeze a new lamp out of them. It was supposed to be new, not rebuilt, that's what I paid for. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted April 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 I called the dealership ready for war however, the guy in the parts department was so nice to me that I might hug him. He said that although the part is "electrical", they know that these lamps all have defects in their housing and as a result the warranty is NOT 90 days, but ONE YEAR. He told me to go back to the body shop and tell them to take out the defective lamp and they will give me another brand new one. He apologized and said that they get these complaints about these lamps all the time but GM turns a deaf ear to the dealerships and body shops who end up losing money from all the back and forth nonsense involved in taking them out, sending them back and forth etc etc. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 I was under the impression the second lamp had also failed.... "What should I do about this? I'll be damned if I have to buy another one and I won't drive around with this one also being half burnt out, it looks tacky and the cops go after you in this state. " In NJ these lamps are required to work to pass inspection. There are 3 electronic versions of the lamps. The current lamp should be version 3. Anyways....the GM warranty is 1 year. Its not really up to the dealership to dictate what the warranty coverage is. Our warranty is 2 years. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg P. Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Unehtical, perhaps, but I currently am doing a job practicum at a GM dealer...mark up is 100% on all parts. If you go into a GM service department asking why your transmission will not shift into fourth gear, they will tell you you need a rebuild, even though you may only need a set of solenoids. In my opinion, that door can swing both ways. Ever heard the Johnny Cash song "One Piece At A Time"? Actually it's just a little more than unethical. Your "fake return" scam contains the key elements of both fraud and theft. I suppose you think insurance fraud is fine too. When you steal you are taking money out of someone's pocket and food out of someone's mouth. I know when you steal from a "big company" you probably justify it in your mind because you think they have deep pockets and no harm is done. But the reality is that someone has to pay for that. And in the end its the honest people like me who pay through higher parts prices and higher insurance premiums etc.. And sure, i know some dealers are unethical. But bad behavior on the part of one does not justify bad behavior on the part of another. It amazes me how many people don't get that. Marika... Logan really know what he is talking about in this case. If he says the GM warranty is 1 year, i'd really push your body shop in that direction. In my experience, once the unit starts leaking, a failure of the electronics soon follows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentham Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 The 100% markup is fairly typical. I have a friend at a Mazda dealer who says they do the same thing. I still would not be comfortable doing the fake return thing unless the lamp looked like it was brand new. So it's not a question of ethics.. It's whether or not you can get away with it -Eric Eric 93 Cad Seville 100K 95 Chev Blazer 143K [garaged summers] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67coupedeville Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 I do not believe insurance fraud is alright. I would also not feel comfortable doing a return like that. I have seen what happens on the other side of the parts counter and know what goes on on a daily basis. If say a tail light is returned to the parts counter within warrantee, the three or four parts guys crowd around the item to see what is wrong with it munching on doughnuts and slirping coffee. They then exchange the tail lamp with a new one. What happens to the one you returned? They get the "New Guy" to throw it in the big green, perhaps red (depending on where you live) garbage bin behind the dealership. I am in no way trying to condone this sort of behavior of "deceiving" or "scamming" any companies in any way. I'm also glad to hear that Marika sorted it out with the dealer. I apologize if I offended anyone with my previous posts . Spence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted April 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 The funniest thing about these lights is GM's old press release about them. It stated that these lights would last for the life of the vehicle......LOL!!!!!!!! If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 I called the dealership ready for war however, the guy in the parts department was so nice to me that I might hug him. Not a bad idea. It will probably get you preferential treatment in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSchlossmann Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 If you paid for the part with your Visa card it may have extended the warranty period for up to an additional year. It never hurts to check into this totally ethical way of making a claim. Just my $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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