weephee Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Hello again. I drove my 02 STS on a 9 hour trip last week and at the end of it my back was so sore, I could hardly get out of the car. I realize 9 hours is a long time but I did stop for gas and food along the way. My car does have lumbard support and I used it frequently to adjust my back support but I still felt like hell by the end of the day. GM offered an option called adaptive seats between 1998 and 2001 which consisted of air cells in the back and bottom of the seats just under the leather cover. The air cell adjust themselves every 4 minutes to massage your butt and lower back. My question is, do any of you Caddy owners have this option and what do you think of it. I'd also be curious to know why GM discontinued the option after 2001. I don't know what the option cost was but perhaps that was part of the reason for discontinuing it. I plan to go to Florida this winter and I'm already dreading the trip because of the uncomfortable back pain I'm likely to experience. If I get a positive report on these adaptive seats, I'll purchase the air cells and module and install them. On a more positive note, I averaged 25.8 mpg on the trip at approx 65 mph. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 I don't think it was discontinued after '01 as the owners manual for my '03 DHS mentions it. I know mine has a massaging lumbar which I rarely use as I hate lumbar support. I haven't figured out if it is adaptive yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weephee Posted September 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 You're right as far as deville is concerned but with Seville and Eldorado it was discontinued as far as I know after 2001. The manual says that the massage feature starts automatically when the key is turned on and to turn it off you touch the down button on the lumbar switch. If your car has adaptive seats the lumbard button on the seat should say AUTO otherwise it is the standard lumbard support system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 It does say "AUTO". I just don't know how to activate the adaptive feature without activating the massage feature, unless adaptive is always on. I never noticed any change, even on the 14 hr trip home when I bought it, though it was new to me at that point and I was not even aware that it had that feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weephee Posted September 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 The adaptive feature and the massage feature are one and the same. There is an air pump in the seat back. If you listen carefully when you start the car, you should be able to hear the pump running. Maybe this option is so good that you don't know you have it. LOL. Did you experience any back or leg discomfort on your 14 hour trip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Did you experience any back or leg discomfort on your 14 hour trip? Once or twice my back got a little stiff. Massage did not help. A little twisting exercise did the trick. Legs were fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 My '06 DTS has the massaging lumbar and Air Conditioned seats. I have had it on several 10 to 12 hour trips. Only stop to get gas, make a quick pit stop and grab a handfull of snacks. No back or leg trouble. But that was the reason I bought it. I have bad hips and knees and my other car just KILLS my knees. I rented one a couple of times and drove it on 650 mile trips, one way, with stops only for gas and snacks. I also move the seat forward and back and up and down occasionly. Also move the steering wheel in and out and up and down. That also seems to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weephee Posted September 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Thanks for the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick7997 Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Heh heh, if you REALLY want to suffer, get in a Passat and try to ride in that thing for a few hours..... Yikes, I'm having bad flashbacks...(reaches for the Celebrex, just thinking about that trip...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 The adaptive feature and the massage feature are one and the same. There is an air pump in the seat back. If you listen carefully when you start the car, you should be able to hear the pump running. Not so for the 1999 STS anyway. I have the lumbar support and massage feature on mine. I do not have the adaptive seats. To activate the massage feature, you briefly push the 4 way seatback rocker toward up (for like half a second, then let go). You can then hear and feel the seatback massage the lumbar area of your back. The massaging feature will stop on its own after 10 minutes, or you can cancel it manually by pushing down on the same 4 way rocker. This is the same rocker switch that adjusts the degree of lumbar support inflation when rocked fore and aft. I understand that the adaptive seats work almost silently, very gradually, and may start themselves after a long period of driving. The adaptive seats consist of multiple air bags located in various parts of the seating surfaces. They have sensors which are supposed to detect pressure points and vary the seats accordingly. I don't know if there is a cancel feature or not. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weephee Posted September 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Yes I was mistaken. I looked up the owners manual and the two systems are different. The thing you didn't mention was whether you liked the massage feature. Does it help to alleviate back pain on long trips. It might be an easier after market installation than the adaptive seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Personally, I wouldn't try any after market installation with a bad back....try changing the cabin air filters if you need proof of that. I have found the massage feature useful, but only to a small degree. If my back starts to hurt after 4 or 5 hours driving, the only sure cure is to stop for a rest break and a walk. The massage feature will get you about 10 minutes..........about as long as it takes to time out, then I'm looking for a place to stop in a hurry. I think I'd prefer the adaptive seats. If I can run 5 or 6 hours before having to stop, I'd think that would be better, mostly because a tank of gas will last about 5 or 6 hours........so I have to stop anyway, but with less discomfort. This is not supposed to mean that the seats are bad, they're quite good in fact. I've also found that dropping off of the support under the knees a little is better than having them fully supported. As someone else mentioned, varying the seat from time to time is probably best. One trick that I have used, since I am the only driver, is to set driver 1 and driver 2 a little differently. When I get tired of one position, I just reach over and hold the other drivers memory button down...I get a completely new seat in a few seconds! I don't think it gets more adaptive than that! Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weephee Posted September 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Thanks again for your responses. I'm sure it's me and not the seats that are the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 I have it in mine but it does not turn on automaticly. I have to touch the top of the button and away she goes. It wiil then adjust every few min if you have adjusted your own position in the seat. I do not beleive I have the massage option or I don't know how to use it. I don't ues it really at all but it is kinda cool. 2001 STS Mettalic Otter Grey, Black Leather, 213,000 kilometers - miles - ? Still running strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 I do not beleive I have the massage option or I don't know how to use it. I don't ues it really at all but it is kinda cool. Believe me! If you had it you'd know it! Particularly if you have the lumbar support adjusted too firmly. I think you could get one or the other, but not both. My massage feature turns on the same way as your adaptive seats do, therefore I don't see how you could get both features. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Yeah, the owners manual is a bit vague to me. When discribing the massaging lumbar, it says if equipped, it will say AUTO on top of the switch, but it also says that about the adaptive feature. I know I have the massaging lumbar, but am still unsure about adaptive. I'm so confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thu Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Weephee, Have you considered that you might have a latent medical problem that needs to be paid more attention to? Perhaps your physician can recommend some remedies. It could be simple or it could be serious. 2003 Seville STS 43k miles with the Bose Sound, Navigation System, HID Headlamps, and MagneRide 1993 DeVille. Looks great inside and out! 298k miles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weephee Posted September 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I don't think I have any serious back problems but it seems if I'm in a car for any length of time, I get a sore back and after 9 hours of driving, I definitely experience discomfort. The only vehicle I have ever driven that didn't affect me in this way was a Forerunner. I drove it to Florida. Trip was approximately 18 hours and I didn't experience any problems except that I was driving a Forerunner instead of a Cadillac LOL. I just thought that perhaps with either the massage or the adaptive seat option I might be better off on a long trip but from the responses I have read I haven't heard any great benefits. I don't recall of any other manufacturer offering these types of options. Usually when one company comes out with something the others jump on board, especially the Japanese. I guess they can't think for themselves. It must not have been a popular option if GM discontinued it. Is there a site or source to find out what particular options cost at the time of production?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 It must not have been a popular option if GM discontinued it. Is there a site or source to find out what particular options cost at the time of production?? Or it could have been expensive to make, without any real benefit, which I think is more likely. I have seen some sporadic posts of older options and costs, but I think they came from collectors, not from any "mainstream" site. Maybe if you asked for a door sticker from your particular model it would shed some light on the subject for you. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadiKing Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 I am surprised you experienced discomfort on your trip. I had a '99 STS, and never had a back ache! The car was so comfortable, I miss it dearly....as in dearly departed.. LOL My '97 Deville is not even close in comfort. Feels like sitting on a park bench. You should be able to tell if you have massaging seats or not. See above for four way switch description. I did not have them, but the adaptive seats were enough to eliminate any discomfort. Good luck in your quest for comfort... jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weephee Posted September 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 I finally found a set of adaptive seats ie. pump, module and air cells for both passenger and driver. I'm going to plug them into the existing harness and if they work, I'll install them. I'll try and post some pics along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I happened to be looking at build sheet and options sheet that the dealer gave me when I bought the DHS. According to the options sheet, you can have one or the other, but massaging & adaptive is not an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weephee Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 You are correct. You couldn't have both. The entire seat back structure used to support the lumbard mechanism which is associated with the massage option is different than the adaptive seat back structure used to support the air pump and module. I purchased the adaptive pump, module and air cells and I would like to install it in my 02 STS. I unplugged the wiring harness under the seat and plug in the wiring harness for the adaptive seat mechanism and it worked. I now need to either remove the entire lumbard mechanism and install the pump and module or find another place to attached it. There isn't room for both. I'm not sure this makes sense if you haven't seen what a seat looks like when the covers are removed. I have some pictures but I'm unable to attach them. I'm going to need a little more time to figure out how to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fretbuzz470 Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 My first incounter w/ adaptive seating (other than a way comfortable ride) in my car came last week. We got hit w/ a really heavy rain and I had only owned my STS for one day prior so I wasn't familiar w/ the seat controlls nor felt comfortable figuring them out in a massive downpour LOL! So I just leaned forward in the seat in a way different position than I usually drive in to see better and when the rain stopped being so heavy and I could sit back again I had this huge lump sitting in my back and my seat was all jacked in the goofiest ways LOL!! I hit the Memory 1 button and it all went back to normal but yeah that adaptive seating really does its business LOL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weephee Posted October 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Thanks for your comments. I finally got a chance to look at the adaptive seat harness to compare it to the one in my 2002 Seville. Unplugged the seat harness from the body harness under the seat and plugged in the adaptive seat harness. Worked just great. Hit the top of the lumbard switch, pump came on and the air cell filled. Trouble is that the other wires and plugs attached to the adaptive seat harness are different than the 2002 harness, especially the airbag connector. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm SOL as far as using it in my car. It will however fit a 1999 and I believe a 2000 Seville and perhaps a deville. In order to install you need to remove the seat covers and install the air cells between the foam cushion and the leather seat cover. The pump and module fit onto the seat back frame which is slightly different than the frame with the convenional lumbar motor driven system. I have the seat back frames which are attached with 4 bolts. Fairly easy to change out. If anyone is interested in buying the entire unit including seat backs, pumps, modules and air cells I will sell for what I paid, $100. If not I will likely list on ebay. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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