Scanner Information Request

[growe3]

Since I got my 2004 DTS, I have been thinking of getting a scanner. I would like to get one that will work on OBDI and OBDII systems.

The 04 DTS will display the codes, but that's about all it seems to be able to do. My 93 STS can display codes, run tests, override functions, etc.

I am interested in adding a scanner to my tool collection, but I just do not know what value it will be. I normally do all of my own repairs, but if I decide that I do not want to do the repair, I would like to be an informed customer. At this point I just am not able to find the information that I want. All the ads say is that they will scan for error codes, I can do that without buying a scanner, and just using the built in diagnostics.

A few questions:

1. What can a scanner do for me? i.e., can it just display codes? Can it set functions?

2. What brand/model would you recommend?

3. What brand/model do you NOT recommend?

-George

[Cadillac Jim]

Don't get one of the $100 range code readers. Just to read both OBD I and OBD II codes and reset all codes will run you about $150.00. These will in general read only PCM codes and won't see or reset PZM and other codes important to a car owner, and are really for finding out how to do quick maintenance to get emissions inspections, not general all-purpose maintenance. I decided I wanted a scanner a couple of years ago and found out what you could get for $125 the hard way.

I suggest that you consider not buying OBD I support. OBD I cars haven't' been sold in the USA since the 1995 model and less than 10% of the cars now on the road are OBD I cars. Even if you can read OBD I, the capability is far less than OBD II.

What I did find out was that a decent all-purpose scanner would run about $400, perhaps a little over, and would consist of OBD I and OBD II cables, an interface box, and software for a PC or laptop. These are oriented toward small to medium sized garages and the best of them can do almost everything that a Tech II can do. A garage would want to subscribe to the updating service offered by all these guys to get the codes for the new cars when they come out, but for your own car you won't need an update until you trade for a later model.

On thing you might ask about is availability and cost of software updates on a one-time basis, such as when you get a 2011 model or an unusual foreign make car or something, or if OBD III comes out.

There are a few things that the Tech II can do that will be very hard to find under $1,000, like taking the governor off, reprogramming your spark advance and shift curves. GM protects the information on how to do this for reasons that are obvious to any service representatives who does a lot of warranty work.

It's been a few years since I have looked and I didn't spring for one then, so I'll leave the consumer reports to those here that do have the more capable code readers, or more properly, OBD interfaces.

[RalPh]

I not only agree with "forget about OBD I" I'd say be prepared to forget about OBD II soon too. Don't waste your money on anything that won't go Can-Bus now.

It's not cheap, but it will do what you need for the foreseeable future, look at the AutoEnginuity on eBay (from the manufacture)

[Cadillac Jim]

GM has always used CAN bus, as either Ford or Chrysler, I forget which. Toyota and most popular Japanese cars also use CAN. Europeans have always done things differently whenever convenient, and there were once a lot of standards out there. Europe and the ISO community rolled over to CAN gradually and they published an ISO standard for it in 2003. After the 2008 model year everything sold in the US (or at least California) is CAN. The variety of bus protocols, the different pins used on the OBD II connector, is summarized here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diag...ignal_protocols

Class 2 refers to the way that the bits are send down the data bus. Class 2 uses short and long pulses to determine whether a bit is a zero or a one, as with Morse code dots and dashes (but with no gaps between "letters" like Morse code; a missing dot or dash will throw a code). Others including regular CAN use PWM, where the pulses all come at the same rate but some are narrower than others, so a narrow pulse is a zero and a broader pulse is a 1. The box turns all this into a data stream (and vice versa for data sent to the car) and passes RS-232C or USB data back and forth to the laptop computer.

The summary: Get the make, model, year, and VIN of all your current cars before you call anyone about buying their OBD II interface.

OBD III is the same as OBD II except that they want to add an RF transponder that lets roadside facilities monitor your emissions (PCM code) status on a drive-by basis, like a SpeedPass driving through the express lanes on a toll road. GM has been doing this since 2004 in a sense by passing OBD data through OnStar, and has presented prototypes to California that use the RF tags approach. If your car has no PCM codes and your MIL light is off, you can drive through emissions inspections straight to the sticker update, and eventually it will eliminate emissions inspections. Why they don't just require that the MIL include a little red LED on the license plate bracket is beyond me -- not really, because data would include the VIN number, which cannot help but be like a short-range LoJack on every car. For more information see

http://www.aa1car.com/library/us796obd.htm

[JimD]

....

1. What can a scanner do for me? i.e., can it just display codes? Can it set functions?

The advertised capabilities of scanners priced for DIY and hobby folks can be misleading. They will all read and clear P codes. Some will read C and B codes. I'm not aware of an "affordable" scanner that will allow the user to set any test functions as described in the Service Manual.

2. What brand/model would you recommend?

I have been using this interface box for seven or eight years (there are vehicles other than Cadillac in the family fleet) with success and satisfaction. It will display any Powertrain data that is available at the OBD plug. The interface software is available as a free download and you can run it in 'simulate' mode to get an idea of what Powertrain data can be displayed.

http://obddiagnostics.com/index.html

Good luck, George. And let us know your conclusion.

[RalPh]

I'm not aware of an "affordable" scanner that will allow the user to set any test functions as described in the Service Manual.

Then you should take a look at the AutoEnginuity ;

[JimD]

Or, we could debate "affordable".

[growe3]

I not only agree with "forget about OBD I" I'd say be prepared to forget about OBD II soon too. Don't waste your money on anything that won't go Can-Bus now.

It's not cheap, but it will do what you need for the foreseeable future, look at the AutoEnginuity on eBay (from the manufacture)

Have you used AutoEnginuity?

If so on what vehicle?

-George

[growe3]

Don't get one of the $100 range code readers. Just to read both OBD I and OBD II codes and reset all codes will run you about $150.00. These will in general read only PCM codes and won't see or reset PZM and other codes important to a car owner, and are really for finding out how to do quick maintenance to get emissions inspections, not general all-purpose maintenance. I decided I wanted a scanner a couple of years ago and found out what you could get for $125 the hard way.

I suggest that you consider not buying OBD I support. OBD I cars haven't' been sold in the USA since the 1995 model and less than 10% of the cars now on the road are OBD I cars. Even if you can read OBD I, the capability is far less than OBD II.

What I did find out was that a decent all-purpose scanner would run about $400, perhaps a little over, and would consist of OBD I and OBD II cables, an interface box, and software for a PC or laptop. These are oriented toward small to medium sized garages and the best of them can do almost everything that a Tech II can do. A garage would want to subscribe to the updating service offered by all these guys to get the codes for the new cars when they come out, but for your own car you won't need an update until you trade for a later model.

On thing you might ask about is availability and cost of software updates on a one-time basis, such as when you get a 2011 model or an unusual foreign make car or something, or if OBD III comes out.

There are a few things that the Tech II can do that will be very hard to find under $1,000, like taking the governor off, reprogramming your spark advance and shift curves. GM protects the information on how to do this for reasons that are obvious to any service representatives who does a lot of warranty work.

It's been a few years since I have looked and I didn't spring for one then, so I'll leave the consumer reports to those here that do have the more capable code readers, or more properly, OBD interfaces.

The Tech 2 is just to expensive, for what I want to do.

The AutoEnginuity unit (RalPh) looks interesting.

Regarding "...What I did find out was that a decent all-purpose scanner would run about $400"... Do you have any brand/model recommendations ?

-George

[BodybyFisher]

George, I have used www.autotap.com

It can read everything but it can not overide or set functions or toggle any on board relays, etc

Here is a link to screen shots

http://www.autotap.com/autotap_for_windows_screenshots.asp

[Cadillac Jim]

An OBD interface that works with OBD II will work with OBD III. The difference is the addition of an RF tag that lest the police or others read the vehicle's VIN numbers and any ECM codes that would turn on the MIL or cause it to fail emissions testing. See previous post #4, and one article (that I provided a link to in that post) which I used to research that post:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/us796obd.htm

The AutoEnginuity base unit looks similar in capability to the $400 PC-based units I identified two or three years ago. They have a comparison chart:

http://www.autoenginuity.com/dloads/Product_Comparison.pdf

This chart says many things, among the most important of which is shop around. Also, on their own chart you need to buy their enhanced interface to get full capability, and I couldn't find a price for it on their web site. I found the unit with the enhanced Ford interface for about $345, indicating that the enhanced interfaces are about $100 each.

Summit sells scan tools priced from $27 to $600. They sell Equus, Actron, AutoXray, B & B Electronics Manufacturing Company, and Auto Meter, but not AutoEnginuity. Amazon has a selection, too, and one advantage of Amazon is that they have rating with verbal posts, plus bulletin boards on each product -- but they don't sell AutoEnginuity either.

What we need here is someone who has used an AutoEnginuity or similar OBD II interface.

[RalPh]

Have you used AutoEnginuity?

If so on what vehicle?

-George

For about $600 I bought the "Big 3" (Ford - GM - Chrysler) package. It does everything I need it to from "buzz testing" the injectors on the F350 diesel to reading ALL kinds codes on the Caddy.

George, I have used www.autotap.com

It can read everything but it can not overide or set functions or toggle any on board relays, etc

Here is a link to screen shots

http://www.autotap.com/autotap_for_windows_screenshots.asp

I really did alot of research before choosing the AutoEnginuity and the "autocrap" really does Very little in comparison. It will NOT read "everything" as far as I know,,,,, you can't pull Traction/ABS/Body/etc codes and certainly won't allow you to change or actually test anything at all.

I know it's not cheap but really is worth the money if you're serious about finding a useful tool for the future (I've never been afraid to spend what I have to on good tools )

[growe3]

Thank you all for your replies. They have been informative and alerted me to a number of things to look for in this tool.

I am leaning towards the AutoEnginuity unit right now. I have sent in a request with some of my questions, regarding the correct scanner and package. Depending on their answers, I may purchase one.

I will still be looking at other brands, while waiting for an answer from them.

-George

[BodybyFisher]

Have you used AutoEnginuity?

If so on what vehicle?

-George

For about $600 I bought the "Big 3" (Ford - GM - Chrysler) package. It does everything I need it to from "buzz testing" the injectors on the F350 diesel to reading ALL kinds codes on the Caddy.

George, I have used www.autotap.com

It can read everything but it can not overide or set functions or toggle any on board relays, etc

Here is a link to screen shots

http://www.autotap.com/autotap_for_windows_screenshots.asp

I really did alot of research before choosing the AutoEnginuity and the "autocrap" really does Very little in comparison. It will NOT read "everything" as far as I know,,,,, you can't pull Traction/ABS/Body/etc codes and certainly won't allow you to change or actually test anything at all.

I know it's not cheap but really is worth the money if you're serious about finding a useful tool for the future (I've never been afraid to spend what I have to on good tools )

Ralph, that is not really nice. We dont criticize each other here, or each others opinions. I give george a quick synopsis of what autotap can do. And NO it does not do ABS/Body etc. I am aware that autotap does not do everything, and commented so, but your nasty criticism of it was unnecessary....and unwarranted. FYI, autotap has helped me quite a bit over and over, does it do as much as what you hyped, probably not.

We provide info here, we dont stomp on other members, try to have more class

[jlinde]

With all the knowledge there is here after what I can understand I wonder if there really is so that a Vetronix Tech1A OBDI

(I bought one set with GM, Ford and Chrysler powertrain up to -95 and GM chassis up to 95 as I have a 94 Pontiac Trans Sport

where I needed to clear the ABS codes to make the ABS to function again) can read the OBDII-codes with some extra connectors, interfaces

and program cassettes. In my case I would like to check OBDII codes for a 97 Pontiac through the Tech1A.

Maybe there is a source somewhere where to get information like this.

/Jan L

[growe3]

For what it's worth; judging by the screenshots and examples, AutoTap has some nice features. On the other hand I was looking for a more comprehensive tool. The AutoEnginuity seems to have the ability to look at ALL of the cars linked systems, and not just the engine/transmission system.

I have no interest in just pulling codes, as I can do that with the built-in system now, and then use my manuals to resolve whatever issue is at hand. Actually some of the most troublesome to me are body, suspension, and lighting issues; especially the intermittent variety.

The AutoEnginuity is not cheap ($249 (ST06) + $229 (EI01-2) for GM enhanced), but if it will do what I need, it looks like a good investment for me. Actually my bigger problem is that I do not have a laptop, or Palm device. So I also need to figure in the cost of a laptop.

As I noted, I am still considering other scan tool brands at this point, and I do appreciate all of the information offered to me. I can sort through the personal preferences and bias, I only ask that the information be as accurate as you can.

-Thanks, George

[BodybyFisher]

Check www.tigerdirect.com you can get some great laptop deals there.

Autotap is good for monitoring and diagnosing, but Id love to be able to affect the pcm, I would like the AutoEnginuity myself

[RalPh]

I really did alot of research before choosing the AutoEnginuity and the "autocrap" really does Very little in comparison. It will NOT read "everything" as far as I know,,,,, you can't pull Traction/ABS/Body/etc codes and certainly won't allow you to change or actually test anything at all.

I know it's not cheap but really is worth the money if you're serious about finding a useful tool for the future (I've never been afraid to spend what I have to on good tools )

Ralph, that is not really nice. We dont criticize each other here, or each others opinions. I give george a quick synopsis of what autotap can do. And NO it does not do ABS/Body etc. I am aware that autotap does not do everything, and commented so, but your nasty criticism of it was unnecessary....and unwarranted. FYI, autotap has helped me quite a bit over and over, does it do as much as what you hyped, probably not.

We provide info here, we dont stomp on other members, try to have more class

OMG!! Dude - grow a pair, will ya

You actually feel I stomped on you? - Really? took my comments to be THAT harsh and directed as a personal attack towards You?

Come -On,,, we're a bunch of guys (I thought ) talking cars here, you recommended perhaps the most overpriced product for what it does, and stated "It can read everything" (which isn't even close to being accurate) I called your recommendation "autocrap" and you get your panties in a bunch over it -hehe

Lighten up, I'm sorry you got offended by my comments......

btw I couldn't help notice the difference in our Member Numbers, but thanks for the correction in etiquette

[BodybyFisher]

Listen, the point is, we do NOT dump on or criticize eachother's opinions here. I was VERY clear with Autotap's limitations, to save GEORGE the trouble of looking into it in that it did not solve his problems. I own Autotap, you are dumping on me when you say Autocrap. When I bought it 5 years ago, it was the best I could find, and it has helped me with its real time data.

A bunch of guys or not, its just mutual respect, nothing to do with ediquette, we are a close family here providing the best info we can.

By the way, with regard to member numbers, I was previously Scotty, with one of the first member numbers on this new board, Scotty was merged with BBF who I created later. I have been a member for about 10 years from the old board, not that it matters at all

[Cadillac Jim]

RalPh -- Yeah, I bought a dud too, and although I didn't give the brand name, I stated the main lesson -- that you can't get a decent code reader for under $200. You chided the Moderator for buying something that you wouldn't buy which was missing the point -- he likely wouldn't buy it again either, he was trying to give you the benefit of his experience. The only reasons that your post stayed up at all was (1) the rudeness was just a little bit over the line we have here and (2) the person you were rude to was the Moderator and not another member. However, you are defending that to one of two guys who can ban you with a keystroke. He's trying to salvage you as a member here.

[Texas Jim]

Ralph,

Lighten up...

Instead of looking at MEMBER NUMBERS...to try to determine who outranks who...

Try looking at the number of posts to see who has HELPED who...

I think that BBF has over 15,000 posts...with the majority of them helping someone.

He has spent COUNTLESS HOURS looking up information, posting scans from service manuals and just generally trying to be helpful to people.

If I read correctly...you have about 119 posts??

You don't contribute very much to the forum ...do you?

This is a forum of Cadillac Enthusiasts who (usually) try to help each other...not criticize and cut each other down.

Please try to keep it between the lines.

[BodybyFisher]

Thanks guys for the support. Not that it matters but I just looked, Scotty was member number 135, Scotty was much more helpful than me but he was a nasty SOB at times

[MAC]

I'm not aware of an "affordable" scanner that will allow the user to set any test functions as described in the Service Manual.

Then you should take a look at the AutoEnginuity ;

Can anyone tell me which AutoEnginuity ScanTool I should buy for my STS. I've looked at the various options and it seems an AutoEnginuity is the best choice. Does anyone see it differently? However, for $249 it better allow me to access more than just powertrain codes.

[Cadillac Jim]

Does anyone have any experience with the AutoXRay line?

http://www.autoxray.com/

Summit mentions mostly this line in their current bi-monthly catalog. Until recently they listed several. This to me reflects sales to their crowd, which is mostly legacy hardware high performance, but they do have LT1/LS1, Mustang, and other sections that address recent and current technology.