Garlicdude Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 I am looking for a new set fo tires for my 98 ETC. I'm a bit confused. I've tried to search the old archives and don't get a response. Anyway, I 've been to tirerack.com and read the reviews on both the Michelin XGT H4 and the Bridgestone Potenza RE950. Several people commented on the poor wear of the Michelins and how they seemed to loose their wet weather traction after a few thousand miles. In reading the reviews people seem to have a more favorable response on the Bridgestones, yet it seems like more people on the board are running Michelins. Anyone have comments on the Bridgestone RE 950? Ride, wear, handling, road noise, good or bad? What are peoples experience with wear on the Michelins, and is there a difference, or do they make Pilot XGT's and plain old XGT's? I've lurked for a couple of years on this board and really like it, thanks to Bruce and the others that make it all possible. By the way I'm also a toolmaker, so it looks like we have a least 3 on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 I don't know what the difference is between the XGT's and the XW4's but FWIW I have XW4's on my car and have 81K on them and judging from the tread I expect another 10K before they get retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 The XGT is one "model" in the Pilot line up. For example, there are Pilot XGT (in both H and V series), Pilot Sport, Pilot Sport A/S, Pilot Alpin, etc. The XGTs are their bread-n-butter performance tire line. I've had two sets of XGT H4s on mine and they're wonderful tires. There's no discernable difference in wet traction new or old I don't think. I replaced the previous set just shy of 40k miles because one got a puncture in the sidewall and rather than replace one, I elected to replace them all. I now have 20k miles on the 2nd set and continue to be very pleased with their performance. Here's a link to a tirerack.com comparison test between the XGT H4 and the RE950 (and the BFG Comp T/A HR4-2): http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/bs_re950_rd.jsp The two tires you are considering are very close to each other in performance. I personally run only Michelins because I've had great performance out of ANY Michelin I've ever bought or had experience with and that's the brand I'll continue to purchase. I suspect the multitudes here who prefer Michelin do so for the same reasons. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garlicdude Posted March 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Bought the Bridgestone Potenza RE 950's. Talked to my local tire shop on the phone and when I mentioned that I had read reviews on the internet he said that they match prices. He said to bring down a printed copy of the web page, with shipping and he would match it. Saved $100 over what he had quoted me. I think he wanted to cry. Chose the Potenzas over the Michelins because I liked the dual compound idea, so as the tire wears it exposes a different rubber compound that grips better in wet weather plus I had some concerns with wear on the Michelins. When the tires were mounted I took a short drive, and BOY what a difference, it's almost like a whole new car handeling wise. The Goodyears really are a bad! Price out the door was $513 with 8 1/4 sales tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Cool -- that's a great price. It's such a good feeling to have new tires on a vehicle, isn't it?! Anything but those Goodyears. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garlicdude Posted March 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 When I was watching the guy mount the new tires I asked if I could feel the old Badyears. The sidewalls were like the Pillsbury Doughboy, right then I knew that the new ones were going to handle a lot better. Went out to the freeway and got up to about 75MPH and road noise was fine. Wanted to try them at a higher speed, but ran into an accident, so got off and took some back roads home. Hope that the torque steer will be better with the new rubber, but need the wife to not be in the car for some WOT's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 BTW, I know the smell of garlic quite well. We lived in Morgan Hill for a while. I was in grade school at the time (in the mid-80s). We lived near El Toro (the mountain). My wife and I went back last Christmas to visit family and that place has changed so much. They still had our favorite eatery, though, Mountain Mike's Pizza, on old Route 101. Top in sometime -- it's just as you come into town from Gilroy. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc6t Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 I bought the XGT H4's for my STS last week to replace the BADYear LS (ZR) tires. I am very impressed with these tires so far - especially the handling in the wet and their "glass" smooth ride. It seems that my car has a whole new suspension and all of the creeks and growns from the suspension are now gone. I cannot believe the difference between the Mich. and BADYears. My biggest inclination and advice from the shop to go with Michelin was their propensity to be one of the truer tires out there. The balancing showed the tires were practically balanced out of the box and as a result I have no evidence of the dreaded front end suspension vibration so many STS are prone to. Good luck with the Bridgestones....I will post any significant longer-term issues I encounter... Tom R. 1998 Cadillac STS with 102K Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 My biggest inclination and advice from the shop to go with Michelin was their propensity to be one of the truer tires out there. The balancing showed the tires were practically balanced out of the box and as a result I have no evidence of the dreaded front end suspension vibration so many STS are prone to. That's my experience too. The biggest wheel weight I have is about the size of a thumbnail. In fact, when I came back to have one of the wheels rebalanced, the guy at the store started blaming my car because he's never had to rebalance a Michelin tire. He said he doesn't even have to install wheel weights on some of them. I don't know if that's hogwash or not, but it seems to coincide with Michelin's excellent reputation. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garlicdude Posted March 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Jason, If you lived in Morgan Hill I'm sure you smelled the mushroom compost, talk about stink! We lived in Gilroy since 79, so we've seen it change form a population of about 15,000 to a town of close to 50,000. My new tires took weights that we're about an 1 1/2 long, I was surprised to see them take that much weight because the advertizements in the store talked a lot about "true round". I'm going to take it on the freeway to get it hot for an oil change and get up to 85 or so and see if there's any vibration, I didn't feel any at 70-75 yesterday. I'm getting preped for a short road trip to the Napa wine country for a hot air balloon ride with my wife. Our kids gave it to us a year and a half ago for our 25 wedding anniversary. Such is the lfe of the self employed. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByStorm Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Has anyone tried the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S? I noticed a pair of 17's on TireRack.com Bystorm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Just put a set on a few weeks ago. So far a great tire. Stick to the road like crap to shoes. Not as noisey as the BadYears that came off and for sure a truer ride. No more darting over seams in the pavement. Still have a vibration at 70 or so. I don't think it's tires cause it was there before. Will go back to dealer for some suggestions this week. 2001 STS Mettalic Otter Grey, Black Leather, 213,000 kilometers - miles - ? Still running strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByStorm Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 I am leaning towards the BF Goodrich Traction T/A 16" or 17" all seasons. The reviews on TireRack seem to say that they are pretty good all around tires. The winters here in Rochester can be pretty bad and they seem to fit the bill. The price ain't bad either. I mostly read the reviews for the larger heavier vehicles first then the rest. The ones the car ('01 STS) came equipt with suck.... Any comments, Thanks ByStorm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc6t Posted March 17, 2004 Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 Just a side note: BF Goodrich is Michelin's lower/discount line. I have purchased them before (VR & ZR) for my camaro and was very happy - especially good fat outer treadblocks which helps with heavy rear (and front) dirve cars (mustangs and camaros). I still think Michelins will give you a smoother and truer ride with less probablity of vibrations. My tire guy told me that whenever a difficult or picky customer comes in they always install Michelins - it's money in the bank for them and guaranteed customer satisifaciton. Tom R. 1998 Cadillac STS with 102K Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByStorm Posted March 17, 2004 Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 I will take that into consideration. Thanks ByStorm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg P. Posted March 17, 2004 Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 I had the Z-rated Michelin Pilots on my '95 STS and initally found them to to be very good handling tires. But in the long run I was really disappointed in how fast they wore out. They were pretty much gone in 20,000 miles. Which really sucks for such an expensive tire. I also found that the Pilots weren't particularly good in the rain or snow either, especially once the tread began to wear down. Perhaps the A/S version is better in this regard, but they are ridiculously expensive. I had better luck with the Goodyears. And I have found Dunlop and the Bridgestone tires to be very acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByStorm Posted March 17, 2004 Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 I have Dunlop on my '88 Sedan Deville. I am pleased with them also, and the snow gets pretty deep here. ByStorm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalPh Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 I don't know where all this BadYear stuff comes from... I have 45K on mine and probably 4 0r 5 32nds left on them all. They wore like Iron, I had No Problem in the snow, ride has been OK (@30lbs) and I'm a harder-than-usuall driver. I know I've got to purchase tires in the next year, I'll consider GoodYears..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 My Good Years wore OK but in the wet weather they were like snot. Handling was below average. Every seam in the pavement would pull the car one way or another. The ride was average on every other situation. The Pilot Sport A/S so far is a far better performer. They are pricey, but you get what you pay for. 2001 STS Mettalic Otter Grey, Black Leather, 213,000 kilometers - miles - ? Still running strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Greg P. You have to realize that some tires are designed to wear faster. Wear rates are not always based on cost. I know a guy that bought the most expensive Perellis he could find, an excellent HANDLING tire, only to be dissapointed when they wore out in 10,000 miles. Sometimes (most times really) a tire maker will use softer compounds in their "racing" tires to enhance handling characteristics, especially for added wet traction. I'm not positive, but the sidewall wear numbers may not tell the whole story either. If tire makers are only comparing CLASSES of tires to obtain the numbers, such as general service tires in one group and special application tires in another group....the wear numbers might be misleading. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 My understanding is the UTQG should give you a pretty good guide on the tire wear. The pilot sport a/s is rated at 400 within in it's class. The Good Year RSA that came off waqs rated at 260. Same class of tire. I am assuming that the Michelin should give me 65% more milage under the same driving conditions. The other Pilots are rated at 300 so I would expect a lesser tire life. The Good Years I replaced had 50,000 miles on them with at least 10 to 15k left. The Pilot Sport A/s I am expecting 100k under the same driving conditions Time will tell. 2001 STS Mettalic Otter Grey, Black Leather, 213,000 kilometers - miles - ? Still running strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc_caddy Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Just an FYI... UTQG treadwear ratings are valid only for comparisons within a manufacturer's product line. They are NOT valid for comparisons between manufacturers. So a Michelin tire with a 600 rating will not necessarily give twice the "wear" as say a Goodyear tire with a rating of 300. That Michelin tire will however likely give twice the wear when compared to a different Michelin tire with a 300 rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg P. Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Greg P. You have to realize that some tires are designed to wear faster. Wear rates are not always based on cost. Yes, I totally understand that quite often the most expensive "performance" tires have very soft rubber compunds and will wear quite fast. I will say that I didn't quite expect that the Michelin Pilot XGT Z4's would wear as fast as they did. It was kind of a bummer seeing them wear so fast, especially after forking over so much cash for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 gc_caddy. Interesting on the non universal rating with the UTQG. I understood the UTQG came about so you could compare betwen two different tire companies, not just within the one product. Oh well, ya learn something new every day. Still hope for a good long relationship with my Michelins. 2001 STS Mettalic Otter Grey, Black Leather, 213,000 kilometers - miles - ? Still running strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 I will say that I didn't quite expect that the Michelin Pilot XGT Z4's would wear as fast as they did. It was kind of a bummer seeing them wear so fast, especially after forking over so much cash for them. *What was 'fast' for you, Greg? I seem to get about 35,000 miles or so out of my Pilot XGT Z-4's. That's on two different STS's, with the same leadfoot behind the wheel.. In fact, it will be time for a new set this fall. ** Ok, I caught your original post at the top...Only 20,000 miles..Really?? Jeez, I drive the snot out of these Pilot's on the '93 STS and I get well over thirty! I've gotton over 40k with them some other lighter cars, still driven hard. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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