Monaco500 Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Hello everyone, Same symptoms after taking the car to three shops including the dealer and after replacing well over $1000 worth of parts (not incl labor): PCM (GM), ICM (GM), Fuel Pump (GM), ISC module (aftermarket), TP sensor (aftermarket), MAP sensor (aftermarket), negative battery cable. The GM dealer said the FPR checked out fine. Car died on me today while running errands; I was able to get it started again after 15 min and limped it home by not coming to a stop and quickly tapping the gas to keep it running when it was surging. The car will drive ok for a few miles, then surge, hesitate, and stall. After the stall, it is hard to get the car to start again. Codes: PO32, PO34, PO71, PO95 (stall). Could this be a wiring harness issue because of the intermittent failures? Is that easy to replace? Is it just the harness for the MAP, or the entire engine harness? I went into the computer and pulled the following input and data information for the three MAP codes (PO32, PO34, PO71). The car was running when I recorded PO32 Data and Input and PO71 data values. Then the car died. I then recorded PO71 input and PO34 data and input values after the car stalled. I checked the PO32 Data and Input values with the car stalled; all values were the same. PO32 Data PO01 15.8 PO02 10 PO03 92 PO04 97 PO05 37 PO07 49 PO08 30 PO09 2.826 PO11 1200 PO12 19 PO13 0 PO32 Inputs P170 LO 0 P171 HI 0 P172 HI 0 P179 HI 0 P182 LO 0 P183 LO 0 P184 LO 0 P185 HI 0 P186 HI 0 P187 LO 0 P188 HI 0 P189 LO 0 PO34 Data PO01 5.4 PO02 94 PO03 94 PO04 95 PO05 47 PO07 47 PO08 1 PO09 2.729 PO11 850 PO12 0 PO13 0 PO34 Inputs P170 LO 0 P171 LO 0 P172 LO 0 P179 LO 0 P182 LO 0 P183 LO 0 P184 LO 0 P185 HI 0 P186 LO 0 P187 LO 0 P188 LO 0 P189 HI 0 PO171 Data PO01 16.3 PO02 70 PO03 92 PO04 97 PO05 39 PO07 152 PO08 35 PO09 2.398 PO11 2100 PO12 50 PO13 60 PO71 Inputs P170 LO 0 P171 HI 0 P172 HI 0 P179 HI 0 P182 LO 0 P183 LO 0 P184 LO 0 P185 HI 0 P186 HI 0 P187 LO 0 P188 LO 0 P189 LO 0 Please help, I am going nuts here!! Thanks again for your help... Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Just grasping at straws here, but have you checked the grounds or made a temporary redundant ground? I think Mat had a similar problem if I recall and a new ground curred it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 It could be a short in the MAP circuit somewhere, a bad ground, intake manifold vacuum leak, or a bad MAP sensor. Check all MAP wires for shorts, check to see if the MAP is plugged in good, and make sure all vacuum lines are not leaking. I know you pulled the manifold cover off, did you make sure it was seated on the gasket good? A note on the P032 diagnostic tree says if the MAP Sensor or circuitry are open the PD02 will read 10-16kPa, you have a PD02 of 10 in your P032 Data. Looks like the place to start. Good Luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 I would immediately get rid of the NON OEM MAP or put the old one back on Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 I think you can simply disconnect the MAP sensor temporarily to diagnose a potential MAP problem. Someone posted on Lincoln vs. Cadillac forum about a problem with his Cadillac not wanting to run. He couldn't figure out what was going on. Finally, he decided to disconnect the MAP sensor and sure enough it ran. He replaced the MAP sensor and solved the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monaco500 Posted April 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Thanks guys, I think Paul is on the right track and that I need to track down the issue with the PD02 value. When I opened up the intake before, I found about 1-inch of exposed wire on the 5-volt return wire (to port C on the MAP) where it connects with the Intake air temperature sensor wire at the main harness. I cleaned it up and taped it, but after looking at the schematic, the Map Sensor Signal wire is a different wire (to port B on the MAP sensor). Could my problem be the exposed wire on the 5-volt return, or is lt likely the sensor or the wire to the B port? Would it be ok for me to turn the key on (but NOT start the engine to read the PD02 value with the intake cover off? One quick question, should I be upset with the Dealer? I repeatedly asked them if they were sure the ICM and the fuel pump were the problem, and they said yes. Did they screw me into paying for an ICM I didn't need? Should I bring up the issue with them that I paid over $200 in diagnostic fees when it appears that they didn't consider the MAP sensor codes? Thanks again, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 One quick question, should I be upset with the Dealer? I repeatedly asked them if they were sure the ICM and the fuel pump were the problem, and they said yes. Did they screw me into paying for an ICM I didn't need? Should I bring up the issue with them that I paid over $200 in diagnostic fees when it appears that they didn't consider the MAP sensor codes? If it turns out the problem is not what the Dealer diagnosed, you should expect to be refunded for the costs of unnecessary repairs. Did you get a printout of the diagnosis? When I brought my Eldorado to a dealer a few years ago I was given a printout of all the codes and the diagnosis. It seems there is a lot of misdiagnoses by mechanics, which only serves to generate expenses for unnecessary repairs. Should the problem end up being the MAP sensor, I would bring the car to another mechanic to install the MAP, then take the receipt and bring it to the Dealer and request a full refund for any unnecessary part(s) purchased due to their faulty diagnosis. If they refuse, I would file a complaint with GM and with the Better Business Bureau. I might even consider taking the Dealer to small claims court if I were upset enough and felt I had a valid complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monaco500 Posted April 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Hello Mac, No, unfortunately, I didn't get a printout of the diagnostics. I have been pretty frustrated with the dealer; because there are two different types of fuel pumps for the '94, I had asked them to verify which one I need by telling me what the three letter code on the tag on the wiring harness was. They assured me it was the pump with the sending unit (most expensive). When I decided to buy it on my own (rather than pay them over $450 for it), they called back and said I bought the wrong one. At that point, they had me; I was forced to buy the other pump through them or have to pay for their time putting the car back together, push it out into their lot, and wait for me to re-order a new one. I then had to ship mine back, paying over $30 in shipping both ways. At this point, I am frustrated with them, but ultimately, I just want the car fixed and roadworthy so that I can sell it before I move to Australia next month. Thanks for all of your help.... I'll keep you guys up to date... Eric One quick question, should I be upset with the Dealer? I repeatedly asked them if they were sure the ICM and the fuel pump were the problem, and they said yes. Did they screw me into paying for an ICM I didn't need? Should I bring up the issue with them that I paid over $200 in diagnostic fees when it appears that they didn't consider the MAP sensor codes? If it turns out the problem is not what the Dealer diagnosed, you should expect to be refunded for the costs of unnecessary repairs. Did you get a printout of the diagnosis? When I brought my Eldorado to a dealer a few years ago I was given a printout of all the codes and the diagnosis. It seems there is a lot of misdiagnoses by mechanics, which only serves to generate expenses for unnecessary repairs. Should the problem end up being the MAP sensor, I would bring the car to another mechanic to install the MAP, then take the receipt and bring it to the Dealer and request a full refund for any unnecessary part(s) purchased due to their faulty diagnosis. If they refuse, I would file a complaint with GM and with the Better Business Bureau. I might even consider taking the Dealer to small claims court if I were upset enough and felt I had a valid complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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