jhall Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Hi all, It's been a while since I've posted, but I have been reading the interesting posts by others. Here's one for the books: Over the past few days while driving my '97 Deville I've encountered a miss under partial throttle while going uphill and was dealng with what felt like a sticking accelerator cable. OK, so I figured with 130K miles, I should check the throttle body first and clean out the gunk - I don't think its been touched. I pulled off the MAF housing and opened the throttle plate. Yetch! what a stack of crud! So, pulled the throttle plate assembly off and started cleaning (carb cleaner and a tooth brush). As I worked my way toward the intake manifold I noticed two things 1), there was over 1/8" of oily carbon build-up inside the throat and 2) there was what appeared to be oil puddles in the bottom of the intake manifold "loops". Note - this was not the carb cleaner. I took great care to avoid the horrid hydrolock event. Got everything cleaned off, but left the "puddles" alone. Anyone seen this before? Maybe a bad PCV valve? Put it back together and did a road test with WOT, but the miss was still there. So.... waited till dark to have a look at the wires. I didn't need a spray bottle of water to find it. The wire on the number 2 cylinder would light like a glow stick along its full length just by kicking the throttle while the car was in park! A couple of other wires were doing a similar light show - but not as good as #2! At 130K, I guess you can't ask for better service on plug wires. Headed to the dealer next week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 What you are expiriencing is a misfire. Have you had the fuel rail recall done? Exact same symptoms I had on my '97. Do a search for "stutter, engine or trans". The yuck in the intake is normal. Mine had it to. It is crankcase gasses that settle when the engine is shut down as well as what Bbob called "heavy ends of fuel" (what ever that is). I think it indicates that your PCV is working just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhall Posted January 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 What you are expiriencing is a misfire. Have you had the fuel rail recall done? Exact same symptoms I had on my '97. Do a search for "stutter, engine or trans". The yuck in the intake is normal. Mine had it to. It is crankcase gasses that settle when the engine is shut down as well as what Bbob called "heavy ends of fuel" (what ever that is). I think it indicates that your PCV is working just fine. Yep, I figured it for a misfire, but wanted to check the cheap possiblity first. I would have kicked myself for buying a $100+ wire set when $10 of cleaner might have fixed the problem. I have not done the recall yet. I have about 8K miles on the engine since I replaced the head gaskets (along with all the other gaskets in the engine). I wanted to make sure there were no problems with my work and no codes before I took it to the dealer. I've read the problems encountered by some members after the dealer did the recall work. I've already talked to the local dealer about bringing it in, but have not made it there yet. Inspected the lines and everything looks fine right now, but I know I'll need to take it in spite of my concerns about problems "appearing". I know one of the customer service guys and will have him drive it or at least have him look at the code list on the DIC before they mess with it. Seems a draft line would have been installed to pull off the fuel gum and burn it before it collects in the manifold..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 I had the same symptoms after the fuel rail recall. Mine was a severe misfire during moderate-to-heavy throttle. At light throttle, it was fine. I never did look at the wires for the arc test, I just replaced them. My originals had almost 140,000 miles on them. A fine service life if you ask me! The heavy ends of the fuel are the larger molecules and chains that don't fully vaporize, that can settle in the combustion chamber from EGR gas and PCV vapors. As stated, very normal. A burst of WOT driving will probably clean that out. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert383 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Like a “glow stick”. Interesting topic. You guys will think I am whacked but had a conversation with a man that worked on the Oldsmobile project that AJ Foyt set a speed record at Indy with. Granted a Quad 4 but perhaps the ignition system is of the same design. Anyway, he told me the plug wires had an aura and it may be an advantage not to separate as with a conventional system. I have a great deal of respect for this man but at the time thought???? So when I had a miss on my 94 DeVille (NS) I looked at the wires at night and also noticed no effort was made to separate the wires running to the front bank. Not a true test as someone had put Bosch wires on but all 8 looked like glow sticks. Plan to check my Packard wires tonight and see as my engine cover is off for a wire check and new plugs, 97 STS. I have read the threads about Packard wires being the best and must agree. One final observation. Many here have suggested AutoZone coils. I purchased one for my 94 and while it worked just fine the spark quality is different. Yellow vs. white with the OEM and as many probably know the OEM’s pack a whollop. Even with spark plug boot pliers pulling wires off the coil towers can be an experience. On the miss topic….had one develop the last few days. Thought here we go again but a set of plugs and all is fine. The previous owner “thought “ the plugs might have been replaced so pulled one yesterday with the though cheap plugs may have been installed this guy seemed a bit thrifty. I found AC 41-947’s and they appeared to be original, 87,000 miles. The reason I mention this is after reading other threads in my search for a plan to address the miss I noticed some having 02 sensors changed and numerous other things changes to solve a miss. My car did set a P0135 (02 sensor) code but with the new plugs all is well. Have yet to examine my old plugs with a magnifying glass but all looked OK. Just know how frustrating a miss can be and going to the dealer is well….you know. Great forum and hope my two-cents worth may be of help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Like a “glow stick”. Interesting topic. You guys will think I am whacked but had a conversation with a man that worked on the Oldsmobile project that AJ Foyt set a speed record at Indy with. Granted a Quad 4 but perhaps the ignition system is of the same design. Anyway, he told me the plug wires had an aura and it may be an advantage not to separate as with a conventional system. I have a great deal of respect for this man but at the time thought???? So when I had a miss on my 94 DeVille (NS) I looked at the wires at night and also noticed no effort was made to separate the wires running to the front bank. Not a true test as someone had put Bosch wires on but all 8 looked like glow sticks. Plan to check my Packard wires tonight and see as my engine cover is off for a wire check and new plugs, 97 STS. I have read the threads about Packard wires being the best and must agree. One final observation. Many here have suggested AutoZone coils. I purchased one for my 94 and while it worked just fine the spark quality is different. Yellow vs. white with the OEM and as many probably know the OEM’s pack a whollop. Even with spark plug boot pliers pulling wires off the coil towers can be an experience. On the miss topic….had one develop the last few days. Thought here we go again but a set of plugs and all is fine. The previous owner “thought “ the plugs might have been replaced so pulled one yesterday with the though cheap plugs may have been installed this guy seemed a bit thrifty. I found AC 41-947’s and they appeared to be original, 87,000 miles. The reason I mention this is after reading other threads in my search for a plan to address the miss I noticed some having 02 sensors changed and numerous other things changes to solve a miss. My car did set a P0135 (02 sensor) code but with the new plugs all is well. Have yet to examine my old plugs with a magnifying glass but all looked OK. Just know how frustrating a miss can be and going to the dealer is well….you know. Great forum and hope my two-cents worth may be of help. It's normal for plug wires to exhibit a glow - a visible arc is an indication of a problem. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhall Posted January 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Hi all, Here's an update. The "glow" was more than the typical faint blue aura you can see at night. This was a white colored flash along the length of plug wire # 7. It made me think the interior lights were shining into the engine area while the hood was up - except it only showed when I goosed the throttle. No other plug wires were showing the same intensity. Made a trip to the dealer yesterday and bought a new wire set (pricey at around $200). Also bought a new tension idler since the original one is making some noise. Once the wires were installed, no more missing and it accelerates like it should under load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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