Matt Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Bars Leek is a thought . The only thing is the amount of coolent coming out of the bell housing and all the steam from the exhaust and the way it's been running means that something major has happened. If bars leek did manage to seal up something that I feel is very big there is no way I could trust the car on any type of long trip. Also could you emagine what would happen if something gave way and a cylinder managed to get a fair amount of liquid in it? Liquid wont be compressed so something else would have to break or bend. I would just be asking for more trouble down the road. I am very stuck here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 I wouldn't put any money on bars leaks for this problem. I also wouldn't put any money on a cracked head, very unlikely I'd think. My money is on the gaskets. Sounds like that is why it was up for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Bars Leek is a thought . The only thing is the amount of coolent coming out of the bell housing and all the steam from the exhaust and the way it's been running means that something major has happened. If bars leek did manage to seal up something that I feel is very big there is no way I could trust the car on any type of long trip. Also could you emagine what would happen if something gave way and a cylinder managed to get a fair amount of liquid in it? Liquid wont be compressed so something else would have to break or bend. I would just be asking for more trouble down the road. I am very stuck here... GOOD POINT!!!! Hydrolock would spontaneously destroy your engine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 One of the mechanics I work with just gave me a call to see how i am. The other guys I work with know I'm bummed by all of this. He asked me this question= Could it still only be the intake manifold gasket? Couldent it be bad in such a way that it is sucking collent through the manifold into the cylinders and making it run so bad and come out the exhaust? I told him If there was not coolent coming out the bell housing then i would hope for only a intake manifold gasket being bad. The nearest thing to the bell housing is a cylinder head I told him. How else could it be coming out the bell I said. He asked why am I so sure there is not a freeze out plug back there under the bell. He evidently has experience with other types of engines ware he said there is always two freeze out plugs. I told him this engine is different and because the guys here say there are none back there. So you can see all are hoping for the best with this issue. I just saw your post Mike, I believe also this has to be fixed. Any way, I may not be a car mechanic, but if I do not find out what exactly has happened it will bother me for the rest of my days. I have to know- I must know. I'm the same way with computers. I been working on my own stuf and that of friends for years now and can remember many a late night hunting for problems till all was fixed. Once I get started I become obsessed and can think of nothing else. When I say I'm not sleeping over my car it's the Gods honest truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Matt we are cut from the same mold! I lose sleep over this crap also... Here is a view of the rear of the engine for you, I don't see any freeze out plugs, that would be a really silly place to put one any way.... I wonder if its possible that the rear of the engine is cracked where I have it circled? Where was this car sitting for a long time, was it heated or open to the elements? What state was this car in, are the winters very cold? Could the coolant only have been good to say 20 degrees and the temp went down to ZERO for an extended time? You have done a lot of work and replenished the coolant so its too late to check the coolent concentration.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Another view with tranny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 One thing I forgot to answer from another post on freezing. Also I just saw another post to answer. My uncle had this car, he bought it new. My uncle made a good living and did not get to live long enough to enjoy his lifes work. He passed away a few years ago and the car sat in his attachd to the house garage. So I do not think any body new of this problem. It was a combination garage- laundry room type set up ware it never got down to freezing. It was always comfortable enough to be in that room all winter long so freezing was not an issue. Eventually my aunt wanted to sell it. Thats when she and I made a deal on it. My aunt said they would go to Florida and park it the garage there and never had to use it wile there. They would drive back to NJ and park it. They would have it serviced,oil and filters and then it sat wile they used a smaller car to get around and it would stay in the garage till next trip to Floriday. It's really very nice for a 93. I have been cleaning and waxing and doing the wheel wells and engine compartment every day since I got it. I love working on my car that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Mike the pictures are great. I do not see one either. Sill spot is right. Also I do not see that the heads are below the mounting area for the bell housing. A cracked head would not be leeking coolent into the bell housing area. " Ware is the water comming from"?? My Gosh!!! I have to look at the pictures more. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Matt so if thats the case, thats good news that 1) its been serviced reasonably good, and 2) it was garaged in a garage that probably didnt allow the temperture to go below freezing.... Good Whats bothering me and Guru is, where the hell is the water coming from out of the bellhousing, even though I am hoping for the best, I can't help but think that you have a crack somewhere allow coolent to leak out, BUT, you are getting COOLANT into your cylinders......CRACK and leak into your cylinders, unlikely... Can you see into the bellhousing area while you pressurize the system with a mirror? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 The confusing thing about your problem is that you are getting coolant in your cylinder(s). So I have no doubt that you have an intake gasket leak. How about this idea, you have two problems 1) you have an intake gasket breach and 2) you are getting seepage through the casting or it is leaking from above and getting into the bellhousing area making you think its coming from in there. Maybe if you use the cooling supplement after you fix the intake manifold gaskets the supplement will seal the casting. When you pressurized the system, did you see the leak? I would avoid pressurizing this system too much for fear that you will load a cylinder with water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 I just got back in. I ran out to buy flowers for my Mom to take up to her when I go for our family gathering Sunday. My Mom makes a big meal for all of us on Easter Sunday. So that is the big question, Ware is the coolent comming from? How is it getting into the cylinders and out of the bell housing. O,man. I will have no hair left before that qustion is answered. I was able to get it on a lift at work only for a few miniuts last Friday before the GM came back from his bank run. The mechanic in that shop said he was supposed to put a pick up on it but he could give me 5 min before the GM got back. Wile it was leeking I put it up and saw the area of the leek. I took off those two bolts and exposed the flywheel. In there on the engine was ware the coolent was running down from. Since it was all wet I could not tell right off how it was leeking out. I need to get in in there again with the radiator tester on and a good light. It's just now that rack is tied up so I need to get it to a guy I know nearby. I do not know if I could rent that bay again like one time in the past. I think something happend to someone in the past so they may have stoped doing that. If it were not a sideways mounted engine I could have maybe pulled the trans off and looked. But with this set up I dont think I could do it. I dont know if i want to. I really dont have the time. I have many customer jobs in my shop at work I'm responcible for and need to get done with. This week I have quite a few of those hydraulic Rock Splitters I mentioned to fix. You can see them on www.elco.com So thats the question, ware is the water coming from.??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 When I pressurized it today I did not see it from any ware above or around the bell housing. Only coming out the inspection cover. So this may be two problems you feel? Then the bottom of the heads are definetly above the bellhousing cover. There is no chance the heads go below the housing. From the pictures it looks like they do not. So that rules out the head gasket leeking into the housing I guess... With a leek like what I have in the bell housing area I think it should be checked,even if the trans has to come off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 I am not that familiar with the physical charactaristics of the 4.9 so this is just speculation. What if the intake was leaking and filling the valley. Could the coolant spill over and down the bellhousing? If that is the case, the valley should be filled and you should get some spillage by lifting the right wheel as high as you can. Just a shot in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Im not to smart with these engines. I dont have a good answer for that question But I can make this comment. After thinking about this now for about 33 hours I would think that if there was a hole in the block under the bell housing why has not all the coolent come out. I made a trip to work, only about 6 1/2 miles from ware I discovered the coolent pooring out and it did not empty the system. As a matter of fact when I first discovered the leek it was quite a lot of coolent coming out the bell housing but when I got to work it was only a trickel. There was still water in the overflow bottle, so it did not suck it all out. The car ran at 220 deg the whole trip to work so the thermostat should have been open. But why does it slow down to a trickel? It acts like a gasket heeting up and expanding, but what if it's only a small crack in the block. There are so many ways to look at it. It's just that the way I see it come out sometimes I feel it should have drained the system dry on the trip to work Friday if it were a crack in the block. I'm so confused!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Matt, You sound a lot like me. Always thinking the worst. A cracked head or block is the worst case but also the least likely. Try doing what I said and jack that right side up as high as you can get it so as to tilt the front of the engine up and see what happens. I still think it is a gasket. Now which one is another story, but then I guess it is irrelavent. You have to pull the manifold to get to the heads anyway. If you find a bad manifold gasket you stop there. If not you continue to the heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 I will have some time early in the AM on Sunday before I must go out. I will call one of the road service guys and see if any are in the area to meet me at my job to open the building so I can try that. Of coarse if there is a hole or crack the coolent may just flow out any way. I hope you are right and it is not to major. When I analize things I always think through to the worst case seniaro( spelling). When I do estimates at work on the Hydraulic Rock Splitters you Must do worst case estimates. It is impossible to estimate with out doing the actual repair. In other words; In order to see whats wrong with D, you must fix AB&C first. So A has to work correctly to fix B, and so on. My customers after 23 years understand that I must tell what the worst might cost. This way of thinking has trickeled down into my whole life. But really, if you look at some of the diagrams in this post you will see this is not to good. See what I mean? Worst Case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Matt, Think this way. You suspected a lot of things including plugs, wires, sensors, ISC etc. You already know that the leak is most likely the only problem which caused all those symptoms. Find and hopefully fix the leak and you are fine for another 100.000 miles with perfect car. The hole or whatever is high enough so the coolant does not get out until it's pressurized. I would not drive the car since there is a danger to hydrolock it (the leak obviously made some progress to dangerous point). The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Good Morning. I'm glad I looked here before I left for the afternoon. It is true that I went over many things, now I have a few new parts that I did not need but that is Ok. I will not run the engine any more now in case coolent floods into a cylinder. That will finish off the engine for sure. The weekends usually go to fast but this one is taking to long. Monday I will get back at it. I also have lots to do at work monday. I hope my boss can let me have some time to trouble shoot some more. I wanted to go there this Am but no one is around to open the building for me. I'm going to bring this notebook with me today and check in here later today. Everybody Have A Nice Day. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Matt, where are you in New Jersey, I am on Long Island.. Mike Maybe Adallak and I will beam over for moral support! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Matt, where are you in New Jersey, I am on Long Island.. Mike Maybe Adallak and I will descent of your location for moral support! No problem, Matt is close to Clifton, NJ as far as I undestand. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Maybe we will plan a road trip Adallak! I have been meaning to visit my sisters in Philadelphia, I can kill two birds.... I'll bring the torque wrench! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Hey Guys, I hope all are having a good day. I'm by the folks, we have a house full. I'm just not feeling the good will today. Gee- I wonder why. Hey if you guys can stay a few days maybe we could fix my engine. I do not know if your all familure with this area. I'm near Hackensack. The little ones are running around outside now Easter Egg Hunting. I hope the rain holds off. My boss is a good guy, he called me this early PM to see how everythinh is. He said he has me going to another local branch of our company a few times this week and showing servicing tips on our rock splitters. I think then first thing I will do is get in touch with my buddy Monday AM and see if he could flat bed my car to his shop for me and put it in a bay and leave it for me. I spoke to him Saturday and he was eager to look at it but I want to be there. I really do not want any one to mess with it till I'm there. I want to cover the fenders and grill up good also. The car is not perfect but i do not want to add any more marks to it. The camara hides a lot. Thats all I will say about that.. The intake has to come off as soon as possible, hopefully that will reveal the proble. If not deeper I go into it. I know it's unusual for this leek but I do not have a good feeling about it. I just got the dinner call. Check back later on. Take care guys..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 I hope everyone had a good day. I tryed to but I just could not stop trying to figure out ware in heck the water is coming from. After dinner my cousin and I spent hours going over the sitituation. He has put together his chare of hot rods in his day so he has backround. He just does not know the 4.9L I have. So all he is thinking is ware the water is coming from. He and I, and I guess most of you all are not thinking of the worst it could be ,like a crack in the block. He and I did talk about reality though. We all know that if there is water comming out of there, then this is not going to be good. I spoke with my friend with the shop this evening. I told him that I want him to use all the blankets in the car I left there to cover everything and told him to get started . The only problem is he wants to know ware the water is coming out of. I told him to start with the intake manifold. He said, NO! It's more worth dropping the trans to see ware it's coming from. If it's major he said, like the block then I need to decide what to do. I think he is crazy. But then I have no idea what it's like to drop the trans. All I know is it's front wheel drive with sideways engine, it must be hell to get the trans out. I changed my mind and told him not to start anything. He agreed to think more on this and we will talk in the AM before he does anything. He says this is to unusual, to have water getting into the cylinders and to be leeking out the bell housing. He is afraid this is major. I just keep reminding my self everything you all have told me. I have re-read all the posts and looked at the pictures again and again. I just need to get something going on this. I cant take not knowing much longer. I may get done as fast as I can at the other branch in the AM then take off the rest of the day, and maybe Tuesday too. I will let ya all know as soon as I know anything. Lets all start thinking ware I can get parts from.( heads-manifold-block) I know, I know, keep dreaming. There is probabbly nothing available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Matt, I am sure heads & manifolds are readily available. If it were the block I'd probably start looking at a salvage yard for a replacment engine but my money is still on the gaskets. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Matt, One more suggestion - did you check carefully the thermostat area (hoses and clamps) for traces of coolant? I believe if there is a leak up there it will eventually end up at the place you described. I might be wrong though The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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