Jump to content
CaddyInfo Cadillac Forum

Recommended Posts

I have a 98 Concours, Check Engine Light has been on for a couple months, I did replace battery a few months ago. Light went out temporarily. A week ago I started, Security & Air Bag Warning went on, attempted several times, always started, no other functions worked. I contacted local GMC dealer (there is a recall on the airbags) and scheduled for Monday. Monday it started, no issues, no warnings, perfect condition. Rescheduled check up for Wednesday. Wednesday, started at higher ambient temperature, all warnings were illuminated. I suspect bad PC module and informed dealer of same, they claimed they have to check all 10 error codes. I was informed today that my bill is $450 and they have no idea what the problem is. Certified GMC Dealer, they were going to provide a flow chart of electrical. I suspect that's it'a a main PC module, replace same with original PCM chip and download security info? Any feedback from anyone is appreciated

Dan C

Audioplus, Sandpoint, ID

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Welcome to the forum.

Turn the ignition on

At your climate controls below the radio hold the off button and the passenger warmer buttons both for 3 seconds.

A lamp test will initiate

then module by module all current and history codes will be displayed

Write them down and post them here.

That is a huge step. 

Only after above unhook the battery and check the terminal ends. Clean them good then reconnect. 

See if problems still occur.

I would not rule a module to be bad yet. Just have to know better of what is going on. The dealer probably does not work on these much anymore but would gladly take your money to learn at your expense.

Why would you say a PC bad?

What airbag recall was there? I have not heard of one for the 98 model year. pre 97 had horn pad issues but were supposed to be resolved by 1997

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

$425 for diagnostics, could not determine what problem is on '98 Cadillac Concours. Wasted a trip Friday to pickup, all personnel had left by 1:30pm. After paying bill following Monday, took 1/2 hour for delivery of car at dealership. Car died immediately, car seat is in position that's undriveable. Handed them the keys, "put a charge" on it. Worst car repair experience in 66 1/2 years. They are supposed to deliver it after charging. Just afraid more things are messed up than what original issue was?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Service Notes B1147, B1148, B1159, B1160, B1161, B1163, cc1301, cc1096, B1327, cc1064

Disconnected SDM - Seat Very Difficult to Adjust, no change with SDM unplugged, unplugged memory seat, no change

Disconnected HVCC control panel programmer, no change

Data Line @ 4.5 V, drops to .5V when P2M is unplugged & toggles 0 - 7V when reconnected, Data line @5V when car is running - PZM disconnected

10 Codes

After all the messing around the dealer accomplished, cover to wiring under drivers seat is left off, seat is stuck in forward position. When key is turned on, Security & Air Bag immediately employ. As mentioned previously, when I picked it up, the battery was dead, something left on over the weekend?

Edited by Audioplus
Additional information
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bunch of codes for the air bag SDM. The 'cc' codes don't match anything in the service manual except 1301. 

The 1301 code is the best clue. 'Serial data line class 2 shorted to voltage'. Somewhere there could be a nick in the harness....shorting to voltage somehow....dragging the network down. And that's if it's not a false code. Good luck...could be anywhere...or... could be a internal failure in one of the modules on the network.  

It would be tough to have a GMC dealer walk up and figure it out. It's new to them too. 

Both pics are from the SDM diagnostics code list in the GM service manual. 

1998sdm.JPG

1998sdm2.JPG

1998sdm3.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Logan

Where are all these modules located, they only worked under the drivers seat. Also, why won't the seats operate. The drivers seat is all the way forward, anyway it can be jumped somewhere to move back? 

Quote

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok.

Do both seats not work?

If only one side doesn't work  I suppose it could be a wiring issue inside the door, if both dont work there is likely a supply issue.

Is there any part of the seats that do work? Heater, lumbar, etc...

Is there anything added onto this car. IE radio, car starter, etc...

Sorry for so many questions but just need to rule things out.

Unplugging each module one at a time may resolve the datalink problem (if one of them is bad)

As for moving the seat it is possible.

The way I do it is get a donor plug to plug into the seat motor for whatever you want to move, 

It is 2 wires. to move one way 12v is supplied to 1 wire while ground is supplied to the other.

To move the other  way it is just the opposite.

The harness will have to be unplugged from the motor. there are 3 position motors.

Forward/ rear

front up and down

rear up and down.

You can determine what is what by following the cables that run to each side. One of them goes from one track to the other with the motor on one side.

I hope this helps. It is easier to do rather than to explain

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Rock

Neither seat is operational, I'll have to check lumbar & heater tomorrow. What gets me, when they delivered the car to the front, it immediately died, had to jump to restart (I have a feeling the key was in auxiliary mode since last Friday?) They didn't bother trying to put the seat in a regular driving position. The battery could be low on amps, the alternator could be bad, the radio used to work until I attempted to start, then all the warning data started to display. I checked the U1301 code, dependent on the module? It could be a 60A fuse.

No aftermarket add-ons.

Edited by Audioplus
Additional info
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok I stress to check your battery connections.

Remove and clean the terminals.

Have the battery tested.

If both seats are not working I would be checking your fuses as only the driver seat is controlled under the MSM (memory option)

I hope you get it figured out. The Concours is a very nice model. Not all that common either. I have been waiting for the right one to own, 

It is a sporty Deville. It is the only floor shift Deville of that generation

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it really is a network problem....a bunch of modules will have to be checked. 

My guess is the 'short to volt' code is really a failed module....but which one? 

You really need a Tech 2 to go by the service manual procedure. It assumes the Tech 2 will be unable to communicate while the fault is present.

It could be any of these modules on the network:

PCM

EBTCM

Radio 

Cluster

CCP

MMM

Heater and AC programmer 

Cell phone 

Memory seat module

SDM

CVRSS

Radio amp

RIM

RFA

PZM 

These 15 modules are kinda located all over the car. 

 

I will mention....the EBTCM (aka as the ABS unit..) is mounted low and outside of the car and is subject to moisture / wiring problems over the long haul. It may be worth taking a quick look to inspect it for any obvious condition first. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is a Tech 2, someone accredited by GM or Cadillac? This guy at Alpine Motors, a GM Dealership, in Ponderay, ID is the best tech they have. I wouldn't depend on him again, obviously. Their is a Cadillac Dealership 45 miles south of me in Coeur d'Alene. First thing is to get a full charge on the battery, jump the seat into a driveable position, keep hitting you 2 guys up for info? I love this Concours . . . check engine light had been on for some time until the battery was replaced, then soon afterward it came on again (a few months ago), occassionally I would get oil pressure warning. Turn the car off and back on, warning went away. The drivers side seat never really worked all that consistently, however it was in a position I was comfortable driving in. Have 144,000 miles on it.

Edited by Audioplus
Additional info
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A GM Tech 2 is the diagnostic scan tool used by GM dealers. Most GM service manual diagnostic flow charts are geared toward (1)...you are a GM dealer. And (2)...you have a GM Tech 2 scan tool. 

So...with out a GM Tech 2. All the GM service manual information is kind of useless. 

gmtech2frontback.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The network/UART line, or as we called it  "the 1-800" line, is without a doubt the toughest system trouble code to diagnose. After saying that you should have been contacted before the additional labor hours were charged. I spent years as a Cadillac dealership service manager and that kind of charge should never have happened. Contact the service manager directly if you did NOT authorize the added diagnostic time.

The Sensing & Diagnostic Module used to be under the passenger seat. I'm not all that familiar with the Concours so that information may not be correct.

I agree with @Logan it will be impossible to diagnose the network problem without a Tech2. When I was, turning wrenches I successfully diagnosed several of these BUT we had a VERY cooperative parts department, without that, it is a VERY labor intensive time consuming diagnosis.

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you mention that your driver seat has never really worked right.

I suggest you pull the seat (2 bolts at back of tracks,) and inspect the wiring under that seat.

That is where the MSM module is (memory seat module)

I say go for the obvious and see what you find

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is the diagram for the 6 way power seats

 

seats.pdf

Also  the EBTCM is located on the subframe driver side under the air cleaner

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Audioplus said:

Can anyone direct me to location of the EBT CM (ABS) Module? Want to get a full charge on battery, jump the seat motor.

The EBTCM is on the drivers side towards the radiator. Easiest way to find it is to follow the brake lines from the brake master cylinder.

I'm a little confused because jumping the seat motor and charging the battery have nothing in common with the EBTCM. :huh:

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, OldCadTech said:

The EBTCM is on the drivers side towards the radiator. Easiest way to find it is to follow the brake lines from the brake master cylinder.

I'm a little confused because jumping the seat motor and charging the battery have nothing in common with the EBTCM. :huh:

I need to get the seat position back to a position I can drive it, possibly to another mechanic. However I do want to confirm that the battery has a full charge. 2 separate concerns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For @OldCadTech.....it was suggested to him to go eyeball the ABS unit. Being mounted low, wet and outside and is known for long term wiring issues...it might be the best place to look first just to verify nothing obvious is wrong with the wiring in that area causing a odd network issue. 

The ABS unit is down low in front of the left side frame rail. 

1998abs.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was hoping to  get some response from the owner of the GM Dealership last week that provided the service on the vehicle? No response and going into this Memorial Day Weekend, decided to give it until Tuesday before I start harassing he and his service department. The vehicle is still parked where they delivered in front of my house. I just went out to see if any intermittent issues may have been resolved. It's dead as a door nail, Dead battery, assume the dealership created some dead short when evaluating modules, probably same issue as when I wen to pick it up last Monday? I'm going to attach 3 files, if anyone has recommendation on what they're attempting to say (other than the Invoice) 'Free Complimentary Vehicle Inspection $427.50 

I guess 390kb is too large a file to upload, I'll attempt to resize.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Rock

The .pdf of the seat motor link doesn't come up on this site. Any chance you can reference another ? Pulling the battery today, there is some corrosion on the terminals, so it's obvious the dealership didn't proceed as requested originally (clean terminals and check battery, alternator).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...