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power to seat lost


airmike

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I have a dilemma. My drivers seat is not working, along with power tilt wheel and all windows other than drivers front. Having read about this problem  I am convinced I have a bad connection under the drivers seat. Not a problem, I'll take the seat out and get to it. Wrong. The seat is in the exit position, fully back, and covering one of the bolts that holds the seat in the car. So I take the seat bottom cushion loose so I can get to the wiring. I figure I'll either, ground the main ground into the harness via jumper to battery or body or send power to the motor that will move seat forward to remove it. I have failed in this attempt. I tried using the connectors that you don't cut the wire to attach. No success so I finally cut the ground wire and grounded it straight to the battery. Still can't move the seat. Any ideas are welcome. Oh yes 99 sevlle sts. I have a pic of the area under the cushion here to check out. 

 

th_IMG_20161204_1839129081_zpsarypkuie.j

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Sorry, if this is a dump question but did you have any body codes?

Is there a switch module on the side of the seat?  Have you checked for power?  Can you get to the seat an jump the switch?, and check for power?

I have had a switch module separate on a 98

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Pull the rear seat cushion and check all the fuses.

Did the seat quit first and the other problems "appear" after the seat quit?

In the picture there are 2 wires "scotch-locked" to the motor harnesses. Is this the "jumper you were talking about? What are these for? If these were an attempt to "hot-wire" the motors it may be part of the problem. The ground and positive terminals are "reversed" depending on direction of motor rotation. This could definitely destroy the seat module. You should remove the wires and repair the wires with solder and shrink tube or use butt connectors with heat activated sealer. The "scotch locks" damage the wires and create more problems than they solve.

Are any of the wiring harnesses melted burnt etc? The main power comes up from the back of the seat. I have had the power wire break at the connector and the break was not visible until the tape was removed. This usually happens on the seat side of the connector.

Edited by OldCadTech

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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old cad tech     The wire you are talking about being broke is where it goes into the module? very close to connector? Would that wire do the same? I have seen video of the wire under the carpet that is probably the same wire only upline of that connector? I am having a lot of trouble getting to the wiring, where I can actually see anything. That phone camera can get where my head can't. Trying to follow the wires where I can't get my head/eyes is a problem.  I guess I shoulda explained a little better. the scotch locks were to see if I could get the seat to move sending power straight to the motor, though I am not positive that is even the correct motor to move it forward. I realize they are not good for the wiring, however I need the seat to move forward so I can remove it! The fuses are all good under the hood as well as the back seat and the relays have been traded with known good. When I do get the seat moved and removed I intend to use shrink connectors on all places I have butchered lol or find broken. I didn't run the codes. yeah I know. The seat steering wheel and all other than driver windows all worked until the day they all stopped together.

  The main purpose of this post is to get the seat to move forward, to later do the repairs. I doubt the actual switch that moves the seat back and forth will effect the windows etc..., but I know a module does. The orange wire that I believe comes up out of the carpet, has around 11 v, so I figured the ground was broke and I could complete the circuit to ground long enough to move seat forward. Perhaps the power wire is broken on up toward the module and connector, though I CANNOT see that mess.

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If you want to manually move the seat you must isolate the motor that moves the seat forward and backward. 

You will know when you see it because it is about centered between the front and rear of the tracks.

The only way I recommend doing it is to unplug the motor and run a fused 12v and ground to the motor.

(not on the harness side!) only to the motor itself. There is 2 pins.

positive goes on one and negative goes on the other. To reverse direction just reverse the wires.

I actually have a cut harness off a donor gm that I have used numerous times to pull seats from my local yard. 

I plug it into the motor and use a drill battery as the source. Works perfect. Same can be done for front up/down, and rear up/down. 

Just be careful that you dont short anything and you should be fine. 

I also recommend putting the wires on the motor first and touching the source away from the seat so you are insured you wont have hands or body parts by moving parts

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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Double Check all the fuses with a test light.. I can't begin to tell you how many times I have looked at a fuse that appeared to be good but was indeed failed. The MEM T&T fuse 10A if you have memory seats.

As Rock says the fore and aft motor is usually centered between the seat rails and unfortunately is usually on the bottom. Follow the harness and it should be secured to the rail frame by a harness clip. The wires should be Tan and Light Green with the Tan wire being the seat forward "hot" wire. If you can't access the motor wiring directly and do what Rock suggested,  pull the seat switch connector and try to access the motor wiring from the connector. There are a couple of Light Green wires so if you know how to read the connector be sure to get terminals E (TAN) & B (LT GRN)... ( E - is seat forward & B - is seat backward )

If you have memory seat functions the Memory Seat Module (MSM) controls the ground for the motor at connector terminal C5 (TAN). You should be able to supply battery voltage to terminal E and the motor should drive forward as the MSM "should" be "normally" grounded through the module. Your telescopic and tilt wheel are also part of the MSM function so if you have memory seats I would be very suspect of the memory module.... esp if you do not have a ground through the module. The MSM 2 wire connector terminal B (BLK) is the ground wire. Be sure you have a good ground on this circuit! The drivers window switch is also part of the memory circuit as the memory switch in the door gets battery voltage from the window switch.

Is it safe to assume that your picture is taken from the steering wheel side of the seat looking towards the rear of the vehicle?

Please check the codes - there are several "B" codes for the seats with memory function.

Edited by OldCadTech

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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Thanks guys, that is what I was looking for. I don't have a wiring connector that will fit, but maybe the salvage yard can help with that. Its either that or cut the wire and use that connector and then repair when done. I was thinking that should be the correct motor. I did see the tan and lt green wires out of that motor, and then following them towards a module that I can't see the plugs. I cannot follow the main power wire in, all the way to the connector to see if it has broken, so I intend to get that seat out! I haven't made it back out to the shop but I'll update when I get the chance to go at it again. thanks again

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Well I finally got that seat out. Cut the wires to the motor and jumped it there to move it forward. I took a picture of the tan wire connector. I put the seat back in and still didn't work, so google being my friend, found that there are more wires that have the same connector and same result. These were the orange wires, just barely out of the plastic channel and a little more of a chore to get stripped and solder/shrink connected. The question I have now is, can the steering wheel, passenger window etc. operate without connecting the seat wiring back. I am guessing not. OCT the fuses were double checked and even swapped to known good. I did get to check all the wires now and am sure the ones out of the loom, and carpet are all good. I repaired the tan wires and then checked the codes, and not checked since repairing the orange. 

th_IMG_20161207_1246276691_zpssmoahoji.j

th_IMG_20161207_1247034561_zps7zbs3jlq.j

th_IMG_20161207_1600442101_zpst80iuu2z.j   the u1161 is current...u1163 history

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I don't think the steering wheel T&T will work without the MSM.

That's a LOT of corrosion in the wiring, is that a connector you're holding in the middle picture?

Do you have memory seats? If you do, be sure you have a good ground for the MSM.

With all that corrosion you need to check and clean all the grounds, pull all the connectors especially at the seat switch and check for corrosion.

U1161 and U1163 are door module codes, pull the door panels and check for corrosion at the door module and the switches.

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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Some ground locations to check;

G201 (blower control module; passenger door module, dash integration module, right rear door module; theft deterrent module; instrument panel integration module; ignition switch, glove box lamp, hazard switch; inside air temp sensor; instrument cluster switch, radio, headlamp switch, fog lamp switch, datalink connector, instrument cluster, instrument cluster switch, release switch, steering wheel controls, headlamp dimmer switch, turn signal switch, headlamp switch. - under front passenger door sill trim plate. (Large splice S210; instrument panel harness about 9 inches left of the left solar sensor harness breakout)

Ground 300 (Radio amp; radio, left rear door module, traction control switch, console CD player) - under driver seat on number two bar

Ground 301 (rear courtesy relay, front courtesy relay, fuel pump relay, ignition 3 relay, ignition 1 relay, rear heated seat modules, keyless entry module - under left front corner of rear seat

Ground 302 (memory seat module; front seat modules/switches; front heated seat switches and modules; right rear door module) - under passenger seat on number two bar near airbag sensing diagnostic module

Ground 306 (airbag modules) - under passenger seat near airbag sensing diagnostic module

Ground 401 (right rear turn lamp; right rear tail/stop lamp; road sensing suspension module; sunroof control module; automatic level control compressor; fuel tank unit; rear integration module; headlamp units (except high beams)) - right rear corner of trunk behind side trim

Ground 402 (inside rear view mirror; rain sensor; overhead console; front reading and vanity lamps; left rear turn lamp; left rear tail/stop lamp; tail and backup lamps) - left rear corner of trunk behind side trim

Edited by OldCadTech

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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Yes I guess that is a connector in the middle picture, though I don't really understand. The wires from the top picture laid in the channel of that connector though I can't see any reason for a junction there. I also found the same on two orange wires now repaired. One of the 4 wires was not broken, so what is the point of that connector? Why would it be placed in the middle of a complete wire? I will check the passenger side now. I have in the past had water on that side and cleaned the sun roof drains and thought that was over. The drivers side was wet so must have gotten plugged again. I did get the passenger rear window to work without the seat connected FYI. Others not working though, the reason for the question. Tilt wheel not working either. Yes memory seats too. Off to work, I'll report back. thanks some more.

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No reason for a connector there, that I can remember anyway! If you're not the original owner I imagine someone was in there tapping into a power source.

One thing to remember when you repair corroded wiring is you have to strip the insulation back until you get to the non-corroded "clean" wire and then remove the corroded wire entirely and replace with good same gauge wire, otherwise corrosion, like cancer, will again spread rapidly.

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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For memory seats, 99 Seville

 FIGURE Cell 141: PWR, GND, LH Seat Switch, and MSM


Object Number: 389935  Size: FS 

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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2 hours ago, airmike said:

Mike those links don't work for me.

 

Mike, I am sorry, those links are not suppose to work for you.   That link came out of my manual, and it is actually the diagram that shows..... it SHOULD NOT show as a link, I need to break them, thx, hope the schematics help

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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update on the seat power

Well I got the wires under the driver seat repaired and seat put back it. Man that sucker is HEAVY. So now I have a passenger rear window that works and the driver seat now works. The Passenger front window, driver rear window and tilt steering wheel still don't work. I am planning to remove the passenger seat and look at the wiring there next, any other ideas? Mike, I never did get the schematics from your previous post to show. I guess when I go back out I will run the codes again also. At least I can stand to drive the car again now. Just in time I would say, the weather has turned into the north pole here. The trans am, and the ats-v both have summer tires on them and are best left inside currently.

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Mike, Ill repost, sorry

Can a moderator with editing capabilities delete the 2 posts I made above that bombed out?  Thanks

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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There must be an easier way to get photos up on caddyinfo, I find it very frustrating.  

Sorry Mike, I didn't know these were not displaying, they displayed for me, but I realized last night that the link is referring to MY computer and its displaying it off MY computer :blink:

99%20Seville%20Memory%20Function%20Switc

99 Seville Memory Function Switch   ^^^^

 

99%20Seville%20PWR%20GND%20LH%20Seat%20S

99 Seville PWR, GND, LH Seat Switch and MSM ^^^^

99%20Seville%20Recline%20Headrest%20Moto

99 Seville Recline Headrest Motors and Position Sensors, Class 2 ^^^^

99%20Seville%20-%20Front%20Height%20Rear

99 Seville - Front Height, Rear Height, Forward Backward Motors and Position Sensors ^^^^

99%20Seville%20LH%20Power%20Seat_zpstdfx

99 Seville LH Power Seat

 

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Mike, I have a Power Seats Diagnostic System Check, I don't want to post it here, too many links within it, PM me an email and Ill send it over, Mike

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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