dreaming :)

[airmike]

I continue to look at the local dealers for a CTS-V. I would like to own one but my wife has only seen a plain cts that a friend drives. Now this friend is only 28 or so, but my wife thinks that car looks like a granny car, she is not interested in anything that gives off that persona. Yesterday in Joplin I found a black v and had to take her to see it. I have been waiting for a black one to show up local, because first impressions mean so much, and she hates any light colored car, as do I. For reference she drives a 2011 mustang gt, black, shaker hood and custom stripes. The lot wasn't open, but we could walk up to the car and low and behold it is unlocked. I had her sit in it and now she even stated "I wonder if I could give up my mustang to trade in?" The mustang was her graduation present from ourselves, when she graduated nursing and got a job. I really don't think I can let her get rid of that car for a car that would end up being mostly mine. I did happen to mention that it would be faster than my xlr-v and that seemed to be a good reason for her to own it. (the mustang isn't close)

Well here's hoping it follows me home one day.

[Texas Jim]

very good...

Maybe she will let you get it...

[Cadillac Jim]

Bruce has tested various mods on his STS-V and has documented about 500 hp at the front wheels. These mods are mostly about improving the intercooler, a tiny bit about conservative improvements in the spark map, nothing that affects reliability or warranty.

[bruce, please correct me as appropriate and add information and links.]

With those, and the difference in weight in favor of the XLR-V over the CTS-V sedan, you should be at least on a par with the showroom stock CTS-V. As a metric, the best showroom-stock CTS-V sedans turn the quarter mile in 12.0 seconds and have 0-60 mph times of 3.7 seconds, with 28 psi in the rear tires and 50 psi in the front tires. I don't know what tires are used but they are probably the OEM Michelins specially designed for the CTS-V. There is a series of videos on Caddyinfo on someone tuning a CTS-V and the second one shows it getting those numbers.

Unless you are already into taking your car to the track, I don't advise the time, trouble, expense and safety issues (no roll cage on the XLR as delivered) but you can instrument your XLR with an OBD II dongle (Bluetooth or WiFi) and an appropriate laptop-based tuning program like the one Bruce uses, and you can do your own testing on a closed road with limited full-throttle runs, reasonable speeds, and little or no tire-smoking.

Even if your wife does cave for a CTS-V, you can trade your XLR-V for a CTS-V coupe, which is lighter and has slightly better times. Wait for the 2015 models with the lower weight, higher horsepower, and updated suspension and chassis dynamics and you can get the sedan, and perhaps even the station wagon ("shooting brake") if they offer it.

A bit of a hint on car shopping: look nationally and schedule pickup for two weeks or more from acceptance (which should include an independent inspection) to keep the plane ticket cheap enough not to do much to the total price, and drive it home. You will have a better selection, a much lower price, and you get to start your ownership with a road trip.

FWIW, when I was looking, I found that all the best cars were shipped to DFW for sale there. The V series doesn't move as a used car on local lots except in DFW, for some reason. They disappear off the lots there before the tires stop rolling. So, unless you live there, any CTS-V that you see will sit for a week or two and disappear, to reappear in DFW a few days later; I saw this repeatedly on cars dot com.

[airmike]

Cadillac Jim, first things first, which includes getting her a drive. That is local, up to 100 miles. I've been looking for a while with no intention of actually getting one (yet). I need her to like it, if we are getting one soon, because it would be hers to take on trips. If she keeps the mustang I wont get one untill near retirement (2 1/2 years). I don't ever buy new. I see no reason to give away the several thousand $, it cost to drive one off the lot. I will also not be trading the xlr, ever. It stays. I realize traveling will get the best deal. I have bought in tx, fl, chicago and NY, but I have been looking locally so she can get a drive and see it. I also will be getting a 4 dr if we get it for her, which the one in Joplin is.

I have read the stated gas mileage for these cars and I have read the same for my xlr and my xlr is better than advertised. I would like your opinion of the mileage you get. I also don't recall if yours is auto? Personally I don't care much about the mileage, though I am sure she will. $20 more spent on a 10 hour trip is not as big a deal when its not a daily driver.

[Cadillac Jim]

The whole point of looking nationally is to buy used, of course. If you buy new, you fill out the option sheet that you get online, decide what you want to pay, and then try dealers until one does business.

The vast majority of CTS-V cars are sedans (four-door) so if you are looking used, that's what you will find.

I like the idea that an XLR-V owner wants to hang on to the car. I certainly would if I had one. I was sorely disappointed when Cadillac discontinued the model instead of going to a second generation. Soon it will be a revered classic like the Allante, particulary the V.

I get 15 in town and 20 on the road. I make no attempt to maximize gas mileage. I have heard that if you use the transmission in the sport mode on the highway, you get an additional mpg or two, but I haven't tried it.

I ran the gasoline cost of driving a V8 as opposed to an econobox for a daily driver some years ago and came up with a figure of $25 a month. I suggest that you load up a spreadsheet and look at the numbers. At the time, $25 a month was well worth it to get into my ETC every morning instead of something I hated to be seen with, much less drive every day. The numbers said that it would take me 10+ years to pay the cost of changing cars, and I would not have the econobox that long because they don't last that long.

[airmike]

Well dreaming of a cts-v is over. That was the first drive for us, so weren't sure what it would drive like. Several things we didn't particularly care for. Cadillac Jim, can you report to me, the ride and interior plushness (is that even a word) of Bruce's sts-v versus your cts-v? I have not been in a sts-v either and was looking more for a ride and interior feel similar to my 99 sts, but with the power of the cts. They had an sts on the lot (not v), and I was going to drive it and see how it felt but sold. I wonder if the v will have a stiff ride or not? My xlr I expect a stiffer ride and firmer seats, but that is not the case, compared to the cts. I really don't want a car to corner, although that is great, but not at the cost in ride quality. My description would be, I want a car that feels like I'm on my couch, but runs like a rocket, in a straight line. I have not done any investigating sts-v yet. If it has a higher profile tire, and softer seats, suspension may be ok. I honestly expected more power (please don't take that as a knock), even though the car is nice sized. I figured to do performance work on one when I retire, but not my xlr. I don't intend to be street outlaw crazy, but still quite a bit. I figured an sts with the northstar would never have the upgrades available like the LS series engine. I may be rethinking my whole outlook.

[Cadillac Jim]

I find the ride of my CTS-V just fine and have never had a complaint from passengers. The back seat is the same as other CTS back seats. I suggest that you take a little time to get the Recaro front seats adjusted for you (start with the lumbar adjustments to shape it to your back) and get accustomed to the ride.

The STS is upscale from the CTS a bit and you will find things that you won't see in a CTS, like heads-up display and such. Bruce can fill you in.

The interior of the V series is the same as top-of-the-line 3.6 DI V6 models, except for the steering wheel, front seats, transmission shifter, and instruments. My car has the subtle lit accent lines in the dashboard and doors, for example, the huge sunroof, the Bose sound system, etc., all apparently standard with the V series.

The suspension is NOT the same as the other models. To make the care safe at up to 200 mph and to provide record times at Nurmbergring, the steering, suspension, brakes, wheels and tires must be entirely different. If you are looking for something that rides like an STS (a 150 mph car), you won't find it in a 200 mph car. The Recaro front seats are hard, not plush, and are comfortable if you take the time to adjust them for you; the lumbar position and amount will take a little time to work out but the rest is simple, and they are comfortable if properly adjusted.

The tire sizes on the CTS-V are a size up over those on the STS-V. Bruce can give you the details. The upshot is that you get better tire wear in the CTS-V. The ride may be better because of this or because it came later; I didn't spend enough time in Bruce's car to tell the difference.

The handling is a whole new world away from that of the regular CTS models. The suspension has two modes, Touring (regular) and Sport.

The transmission has four modes: Touring (regular), Manual (paddle shift in Touring mode), Sport Auto, and Sport Manual. Manual shifting can be done with paddle shifters on the steering wheel in either Touring or Sport mode. In sport mode, you can use the shifter in ratchet motions to shift. You can transition from manual back to auto by pressing and holding the upshift paddle, or holding the shifter in forward (upshift) position.

[airmike]

I can read up on the sts vs the cts easily enough, however I was just curious if you personally could compare the seats, suspension and tires between the two since I knew you have rode in Bruce car. Having not been in either one before I didn't know what I was really in for. Unless Bruce has rode in a cts-v he is not going to be able to give an opinion. I should of realized I wasn't going to be after a cts-v I suppose just thinking about Nurmbergring performance. I really don't want paddle shifters and suspension meant for the track. The grand prix we have has the ws-6 suspension, paddle shifters etc..and I am no longer interested in that sort of ride. I suppose that horsepower listed for the cts probably skewed my thinking. I don't expect an sts-v to show up in my neighborhood anytime soon to give it a try.

I would like to say, I don't dislike the seats etc..its just not what I am after and didn't realize until trying it out. That cts was an awesome car. I much prefer to visit with people like this and drive a car myself, vs reading car magazine writers opinions. They are so often biased that they are not accurate.

I really appreciate your time and input Jim

[Cadillac Jim]

The ride in Bruce's car seemed about the same as in my car. But this was my first day with any V-series, and all on fine concrete surfaces, where a Cooper mini would ride well.

A 465 hp world-class sports sedan is not going to ride like a 300 hp world-class sports sedan. But, it's still a Cadillac, as is the CTS-V, and intended to be driven every day on the streets as a luxury car. You will find that Cadillac does a far better job of ride as well as handling than, say, the BMW M-Series or Mercedes AMG.

I really don't understand what the issue is. If you are simply noting that the ride is different and now expect something uncomfortable, you really need to drive ten miles in one and see what it is really like. One regular front-seat (Recaro!) passenger has chronic back problems with pain issues and never has complained about the ride, although I did get a comment once about the back-and-forth when taking a speed bump too fast on a diagonal tack. I've taken along many people of all ages in the back seat for over a year now and never had a complaint about the ride.

But once, when easing the throttle (no down-shift, in Touring mode) in sixth gear at 45 mph, the eyes of a local CEO went glassy.

I use the suspension Sport mode when I'm driving alone.

[Texas Jim]

If y'all don't mind, I'll throw my two cents worth in here also...

I think I understand what Mike is talking about concerning the ride.

In my opinion... and I stress OPINION... I find the ride of the CTS V and the STS V a little TOO firm... it is not quite HARSH, but it is firmer than I really like.

That's probably why I bought another DTS instead of the "V wagon I have often talked about.

I think I would get tired of the extra firm ride in the "V after a while and grow to dislike it... but then again, I might become accustomed to it and grow to love it.

But... I was uncertain enough about it, that I passed on the "V" wagon and got the 2011 DTS Platinum.

[airmike]

Texas Jim you hit the nail on the head. Cadillac Jim I did have it the entire weekend and even 140 mph trying my best to keep up with my buddies vette (hence the remark about power in post #6. Don't get me wrong, I think the car is fantastic for doing what it was made for. I just obviously didn't know what I wanted. The thing that got me, was expecting a softer ride than my xlr. I looked at it as a true sports car and the cts as sort of a cross between family/sport car. I was totally astounded to feel that my xlr has a softer ride. That was completely erroneous thinking, which I should have expected, knowing its performance at the track. So I have been wondering about the ride of the sts? Kinda hoping it is going to be more family than sport handling. Its probably not though. I drove a ws6 trans am for 10 years, then a grand prix comp-g for daily drivers and am tired of that ride. BUT I am not tired of straight line performance. The xlr is stiff enough for my rare days that I might be interested in corners. Maybe I should just take my old sts and turbo it, but that wouldn't be what I was after either. I want a factory, semi low mile vehicle that rides like the sts and runs like the cts/vettes with the ls engine for future upgrades. I am thinking I want to play with it after I retire in a couple years. The sts will not have an ls engine, even if it does meet my ride desires, so then what? I love caddy's though and would like to stay with them.

[Cadillac Jim]

I want a car that feels like I'm on my couch, but runs like a rocket, in a straight line.

That's not going to be available from a car manufacturer today because a high percentage of such cars will be wrecked in the first few days or weeks of use. Back in the 1950's and 1960's this was possible, and nobody sued the pants off of Chrysler for selling the 426 hemi in compact cars and such. Today people think that they have a right to a nice day and are entitled to hold others responsible for the consequences of their own behavior, and no one can afford to sell a car that will simply go out of control and lose contact with the road if the throttle is held wide open for 15 seconds. People would do it, people would crash, and survivors or estates would sue.

I don't know what you meant buy expecting more power from the CTS-V. If you had an automatic and were trying to keep up with a friend in a Vette (manual or automatic) who was driving in a spirited manner, you can bet that he was keeping the engine over 3500 RPM at all times. If you left the transmission in auto, the car will keep the RPM down and you will not have the throttle response to stay with someone who is driving in the powerband. The CTS-V sedan has a 0-60 mph time of 3.7 seconds, faster than any Vette, and a quarter-mile time of 12.0 seconds, which is competitive with any Vette under $100,000. But you have to drive it if you want it to stay with someone exhibiting spirited driving with a Vette or other high performance car. If you downshift with the paddle shifter, and shift occasionally to keep the RPM around the middle of the tach, you will find that you have all the throttle response you need.

But, whatever you do, make sure that the steering is straight ahead if you floor it. The car will use a computer algorithm to rearrange things and put 550+ hp to the rear wheels, and that is not viable at any speed if the steering is not straight ahead.

[Cadillac Jim]

I would like to address this remark:

I drove a ws6 trans am for 10 years, then a grand prix comp-g for daily drivers and am tired of that ride.

There has been a lot of water under the bridge since those cars were designed, and their target market is not Cadillac people. The Cadillac has the electronic suspension that provides a suspension that you can drive to work and the store every day but responds to stress by stiffening up in milliseconds (faster with the new magnetic struts/shocks). It's not track-ready or some such.

I have a friend with a late model Nissan sedan that has a whole lot worse ride than my CTS-V.

[airmike]

It continues to sound like you are trying to sell me on a cts-v .. I am very happy you love yours and I think the car is absolutely awesome. I wasn't comparing cars, just trying to explain what I don't want. I didn't know what I didn't want, but now I know a little about what I don't want. I don't want the best at many things in my car. I want SOFT like a limo, but fast/quick pure and simple. I don't desire to go 200 mph (unless its done in 1/4 mile). I don't want to corner like a slot car. Now I will be looking for the best compromise that I can find, because that car doesn't exist. I would love my sts to have 5,6 7 hundred horsepower, but it would still be an old car. Old suspension, old hvac, old radio, instruments etc..If there was a new version of my 99 sts with 600 horsepower, I would be in line to buy one when they hit the used market. Not an updated version, my exact car remade new. I am sure that doesn't exist because cars keep evolving. Now if you know of that car, let me know.

[Texas Jim]

It continues to sound like you are trying to sell me on a cts-v .. I am very happy you love yours and I think the car is absolutely awesome. I wasn't comparing cars, just trying to explain what I don't want. I didn't know what I didn't want, but now I know a little about what I don't want. I don't want the best at many things in my car. I want SOFT like a limo, but fast/quick pure and simple. I don't desire to go 200 mph (unless its done in 1/4 mile). I don't want to corner like a slot car. Now I will be looking for the best compromise that I can find, because that car doesn't exist. I would love my sts to have 5,6 7 hundred horsepower, but it would still be an old car. Old suspension, old hvac, old radio, instruments etc..If there was a new version of my 99 sts with 600 horsepower, I would be in line to buy one when they hit the used market. Not an updated version, my exact car remade new. I am sure that doesn't exist because cars keep evolving. Now if you know of that car, let me know.

You probably want something much faster than my car... a 2011 DTS Platinum...but (for me) it is a reasonable compromise.

I posted a few pictures the other day in another thread.

It has the Magnetic Ride Suspension like the CTS "V" but it has higher profile tires so it rides a lot better.

The cars like mine are great on trips... You can drive all day and still feel good at the end of the day.

Even though it is a big heavy car, it will surprise you at how well it handles curves and corners.

With the MAG RIDE and 245x50x18 inch tires, it corners flat and it holds the road well.

The speed limiter is set from the factory at 130... but that is easy to change.

With a little tuning the HP goes up to 330/335...and it has 3.71 gears...

It likes to cruise at around 90 or so... At that speed, it just feels RIGHT...like THAT is where it wants to run...

Since you are just looking and trying to figure out what you might want... and what you DON'T want...

If there is one in your area, you may want to go take a look at it... just for the heck of it.

But only the PLATINUM has the MAG RIDE... the lessor models have regular shocks and struts and do not handle very well at all.

I hope all my future cars have the MAG RIDE... I love it.

[Cadillac Jim]

The whole point of offering different drive trains and different suspensions on each platform is to provide the right car for people who want different design points. If a nice ride is what you want, and your criteria of a nice ride is a soft ride, then you can probably find 400 hp cars out there that you will like, thanks to Magnaride. Look at the V-Sport line.

If they ever figure out how to switch the spring rate as well as she shock rate at a reasonable cost, then you may see 600 hp in street cars that have a soft ride unless Stbilitrak demands better chassis control. Since adaptive spring rate and even roll center is out there and *will* be offered by somebody, some day, then, why not Cadillac, and why not now?

Roll center can be moved by putting suspension mounting points on a screw-located pivot that is moved by a stepping motor.

Wheel rate can be modulated by moving the spring actuating point on the suspension arm, again with a worm gear and stepping motor.