epricedright Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Well I finally found time to put on the new ISC motor and it seems to work fine now. It no longer sails on after lifting off the accelerator, and the ISC no longer makes the ratcheting noises. I did all the adjustments as well...very time consuming and at times frustrating. Won't be nearly as hard next time as I somewhat know what I'm doing now. The only thing I'm still concerned with is the high idle at start. At start, for around 3-4 seconds, it idles pretty high and then drops down to normal. Is that normal? I can't tell what RPM it starts at, as it has no tach., and I can't put it in diagnostics mode that fast at start up to get a tach reading. I'd guess round 1300-1500 RPM's or so. Also with the ISC unplugged in the ISC override mode, plunger fully retracted, my idle was at 625-650 and not at the manual recommended 525 RPM's. The manual stated to adjust the min. idle screw if there were no vac. leaks. I didn't have the special tool to adjust the mininum idle speed screw, so I left that alone. Do you think that could be "a" or "the" problem? I visually checked the vacuum lines and they appear ok. Is there a better way to check the vacuum lines than visually? With the ISC plugged in, engine warm at 100-105 C (212-221 F), it idles at around 675 to 700 RPM in park. Is that about right? I just checked it again just now, engine colder and it was idling at around 600-650 in park. Thanks to everyone and this board as a whole for all the help! A special thanks to Mike and adallack for going way out of your way. Adallack, I'll get that ISC in the mail for you Priority Mail. I need to confirm your address though, please send me your address in a PM. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Some people use carb cleaner and spray each line looking for an increase in engine speed while others mist the area with water from a spray bottle looking for a stumble/decrease in idle speed. Could there be a piece of carbon holding the throttle plate open slightly? One member reported a small burr on the throttle body causing a high idle. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 I devised a tool to adjust the minimum air screw but can not remember exactly how I did it. I may be wrong but I think I adjusted it with a 1/4 inch socket, its in a rough location between the ISC and the TB. Sears sells a handle, I will take a picture of it later and post it so you can see what it looks like. I don't recall what kind of a screw head is it maybe that will jog my memory.. Is is a T-type? Glad you fixed your problem. Do you remember me saying this will be a good way to get to know your car, I loved your statement, "I did all the adjustments as well...very time consuming and at times frustrating. Won't be nearly as hard next time as I somewhat know what I'm doing now". The ISC and TPS jobs opened my eyes as to how incredible this system is! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Could there be a piece of carbon holding the throttle plate open slightly? One member reported a small burr on the throttle body causing a high idle. TB was cleaned really well last time a month ago and visually still looked pretty clean. There was a very,very small nick on the top of the throttle blade. Not sure it's a nick though, just looks a couple little dark spots when the blade is closed. Looks like someone maybe nicked the blade possibly when cleaning it. VERY minute though...and not sure it's anything at all besides a dark spot. I'll look at that more closely. Should I try sanding on that spot a little you think? I'll try the vacuum test you suggested tonight KHE...Thanks! Doing the TPS check, the TPS reading was -.2 (normal according to the manual...although my idle RPM wouldn't go low enough, 625-650) with the ISC unplugged in the PCM override mode, plunger fully retracted. Doing the Maximum extension check, the odd thing was I couldn't get the TPS reading with plunger fully extended. I could get the plunger to fully extend, but no reading was displayed for the TPS...supposed to be between 13.0 and 13.8 I did the idle learn procedure also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Do you remember me saying this will be a good way to get to know your car, I loved your statement, "I did all the adjustments as well...very time consuming and at times frustrating. Won't be nearly as hard next time as I somewhat know what I'm doing now". The ISC and TPS jobs opened my eyes as to how incredible this system is! No doubt about it Mike. You were right again. Learned a lot. Maybe more than I wanted to...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Sears sells a handle, I will take a picture of it later and post it so you can see what it looks like. I don't recall what kind of a screw head is it maybe that will jog my memory.. Is is a T-type? I'd love to see that tool Mike. Using a mrror to peek at it last night, it appeared to be a T-type head. Looks like I'll need to take the ISC off to get to it easier though. I'm a try cleaning my TB again and look at that nick as well as check more thoroughly for a vacuum leak before I adjust that screw. By cleaning the TB, looks like I'll have to do what I did last night all over again...won't be nearly as hard & time consuming this time around though. At start, for around 3-4 seconds, it idles pretty high and then drops down to normal. Is that normal? I can't tell what RPM it starts at, as it has no tach., and I can't put it in diagnostics mode that fast at start up to get a tach reading. I'd guess round 1300-1500 RPM's or so. So does my idle not sound right at start up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 If it settles down to 625 and 675 quickly that's ok. How long is it staying high? Yes if it is a T-type, I devised something. I think I purchased a 1/4 inch T-socket set and used a 1/4 inch extension to get at it (I don't think the long extension gets in there, I think I used a 2" extension. If you can get a 1/4 flex handle along with the proper 1/4 T-socket, I think you will get it easily. The tool that I think will do it is the KD Tools flexible 1/4 inch 6 inch long screwdriver handle with the proper T-socket on it http://www.kd-tools.com/13094.htm http://store.sjdiscounttools.net/kdt711947.html http://store.sjdiscounttools.net/kdt711207.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 If it settles down to 625 and 675 quickly that's ok. How long is it staying high? 1500 RPM's or so for 3-4 seconds at start up. Seems hard on the motor...especially w/ winter coming up. 1/4 inch T-wrench set and used a 1/4 inch extension to get at it Are you referring to a T-type socket? I have those. Too big to get in the hole though...I think. Maybe a T-type bit put in a 1/4 deep well, thin well socket, put on a springy 1/4 socket runner will get in there & work. I didn't have a 1/4 deep well socket...good reason to go to Sears...and see what else I might need LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 The tool that I think will do it is the KD Tools flexible 1/4 inch 6 inch long screwdriver handle with the proper T-socket on it http://www.kd-tools.com/13094.htm http://store.sjdiscounttools.net/kdt711947.html http://store.sjdiscounttools.net/kdt711207.html Any reason to buy a tool! I would drill that hole out larger on the ISC bracket if I had to I will post a photo later of a tool that I have. I have a T-type tool that I think may give you an idea that I got from Sears. I still think however that using a typical T-socket and drilling out the hole on the ISC bracket is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 There you go Mike, Thanks! Besides on-line, do you know where I can find KD tools? Does Craftsman make a flexible 1/4 inch 6 inch long screwdriver handle? I used to have one of those. I few years ago, listening to my wife, I sold my rollaround with most all the tools I didn't use often. We were considering moving out West and we wanted to lighten our load. We reconsidered that move and I've since bought that huge Hammerhead 19 drawer stainless roll around Costco used to sell and LOVE it. Big improvement over the Craftsman. I just haven't yet replaced all the odd tools I use to have...workin' on it though...too much fun! Any reason to buy a tool! I would drill that hole out larger on the ISC bracket if I had to If I remember correctly, the hole in the throttle body leading to the min. idle screw was the one that seemed small to me...maybe not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 There you go Mike, Thanks! Besides on-line, do you know where I can find KD tools? Does Craftsman make a flexible 1/4 inch 6 inch long screwdriver handle? I used to have one of those. I few years ago, listening to my wife, I sold my rollaround with most all the tools I didn't use often. We were considering moving out West and we wanted to lighten our load. We reconsidered that move and I've since bought that huge Hammerhead 19 drawer stainless roll around Costco used to sell and LOVE it. Big improvement over the Craftsman. I just haven't yet replaced all the odd tools I use to have...workin' on it though...too much fun! Any reason to buy a tool! I would drill that hole out larger on the ISC bracket if I had to If I remember correctly, the hole in the throttle body leading to the min. idle screw was the one that seemed small to me...maybe not I am not sure, but if you find a well stocked Sears I think you will find one I searched their site and didn't come up with it. That stainless steel tool box is incredible I was eyeing it but it was quite expensive. I can't remember where the problem was with the hole, but I do recall that some tool would not fit through it, I thought it was the ISC bracket. Maybe you can go to the KD site and see if there is a local distributor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 epricedright, I am glad you finally solved your ISC motor issue! The numbers you got are pretty close to those the manual recommends. Mine does exactly the same. When the ambient temp. gets lower you will see even higher RPM at start. It's ok. I would not care of further adjustments and would leave it alone. Remember - the perfect is the enemy of good! Looks like it's time to replace my ISC motor too. I'll send you email with my address, lets see if Scotty's motor good for me. adallak The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Looks like it's time to replace my ISC motor too. I'll send you email with my address, lets see if Scotty's motor good for me. On it's way Priority Mail today...Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 That stainless steel tool box is incredible I was eyeing it but it was quite expensive. So worth it though. Not much more than the Craftsman, and much better quality, when you compare like toolboxes...ball bearing glides and drawer count. Never mind the stainless. Sure makes the garage sparkle! Caught mine when they did the price drop before discontinuing it and replaced it w/ the smaller one they sell now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 That stainless steel tool box is incredible I was eyeing it but it was quite expensive. So worth it though. Not much more than the Craftsman, and much better quality, when you compare like toolboxes...ball bearing glides and drawer count. Never mind the stainless. Sure makes the garage sparkle! Caught mine when they did the price drop before discontinuing it and replaced it w/ the smaller one they sell now. Post a photo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 I will tonight...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 The numbers you got are pretty close to those the manual recommends. Mine does exactly the same. When the ambient temp. gets lower you will see even higher RPM at start. It's ok. I would not care of further adjustments and would leave it alone. Remember - the perfect is the enemy of good! Is the high idle at start normal though? What does everyone else's car do at start up. I always thought it was really hard on the motor, esp. the top, to rev a cold engine, especially in the winter. No oil up there at startup. This is why I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 What does everyone else's car do at start up? I'm dying to know if my idle at start up is normal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 While your idle settles down to 650, I think your 1500 RPM at start up is a little high. Once you get the tool to adjust the min air, TPS, and ISC correctly you will be fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 The tool that I think will do it is the KD Tools flexible 1/4 inch 6 inch long screwdriver handle with the proper T-socket on it I found that tool tonight at Sears and I'll be doing the adjustment this weekend...wish me luck. Ive decided to go with the 10W40 for the winter to clear up that knock. Thanks Mike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 The tool that I think will do it is the KD Tools flexible 1/4 inch 6 inch long screwdriver handle with the proper T-socket on it I found that tool tonight at Sears and I'll be doing the adjustment this weekend...wish me luck. Ive decided to go with the 10W40 for the winter to clear up that knock. Thanks Mike! Terrific... with bbobynski's advice and armed with the adjustment procedures and tool, you should be ready to nail it, good luck to you... you should be in great shape. Have you cleaned the TB throat and plate to make sure its closing and not hanging open? Let us know how it goes.. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Yes, when the ISC plunger was fully retracted, their was slack in the cruise cable, a gap between the ISC plunger and throttle lever, and the throttle lever was resting on the min. air screw. I'll need to look at the TB real close to see if that aparent knick is a knick or a carbon deposit. I'll also clean it again real well and check for vacuum leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Have fun and good luck hopefully all will be fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted October 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Not my idea of FUN exactly, but thanks anyhow! I'm determined to get it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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